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After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

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Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#11

Post by Normille »

Markoff wrote: post #7
ls15 wrote: post #2

Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

  >Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar...
With those other clients you mention, one of the reasons your communications will remain secure is that --because so few people use them-- you'll struggle to find anyone to message, in the first place.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#12

Post by Markoff »

bentley wrote: post #5
rvz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number. Period.

I sympathize with the sentiment, but the vast majority of my contacts already use other messaging systems that are identified by phone number such as SMS and WhatsApp—they don’t even use email, at least not for “text messaging”‐like things. In practice I’ve found that Signal has been the most successful privacy‐respecting messenger that my friends communicate with, which I attribute in large part to its policy of pop…

After they announced removal of SMS I installed Johann's fork after few years (been using it for few years before but gave up with extended family after PIN nag screen fiasco which was last drop) to use it as SMS app only to find out that Signal is still missing such basic features as select multiple threads at same time and Archive or Delete them, you have to do it one by one, reminds of days when users for years requested basic feature to send more than one photo at time. Signal is total UX failure. I use it now just for SMS and didn't promote it to people to contact me, anyway there is basically only one person which I don't have on other messenger anyway.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#13

Post by renewiltord »

rvz wrote: post #3
ls15 wrote: post #2

Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.

> Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number. Period.

In English that translates to "Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and don't use messengers that aren't E2EE" => "Use messengers without phone numbers and with E2EE". So no, I think your weaker condition is not as good. E2EE is a good thing.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#14

Post by cpach »

Markoff wrote: post #7
ls15 wrote: post #2

Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

Signal is the most secure messaging app out there.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#15

Post by Markoff »

Normille wrote: post #11
Markoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

>Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar... With those other clients you mention, one of the reasons your communications will remain secure is that --because so few people use them-- you'll struggle to find anyone to message, in the first place.

Sure, but in that case you can just go with Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger with WA being at least E2E by default, no point even trying some "alternatives" as Signal or Telegram under pretense of security.

With Telegram I can see at least appeal in using it as news source, chat room or for bots, but what offers Signal besides hype about The Current Thing?

Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#16

Post by Markoff »

cpach wrote: post #14
Markoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

Signal is the most secure messaging app out there.

ROFL

Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#17

Post by stefandesu »

pdimitar wrote: post #8
ls15 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://telegram.org/ > Private > Telegram messages are heavily encrypted and can self-destruct.

It doesn't claim that it's immune to requests from authorities, as far as I can see.

Pavel Durov seems to be proud of never having disclosed user data to authorities and mentions it every time he disses another messenger. Guess he can't do that anymore now.

(Just to clarify: I like Telegram. I just don't like Durov very much and the way he positions Telegram as the superior messenger in every way, even though it obviously isn't when it comes to encryption in particular.)

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#18

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

ls15 wrote: post #2

Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.

yes. yes yes. yes. yes

100%. the same reason i avoid whatsapp and signal like the plague. "mobile number" is in itself a big identifier when you are living in a place where you have o do mandatory KYC so that the government knows which each mobile number is linked to the actual human being.

i dont care signal doesnt hold any messages. the government can ask for my number and they can use the xkcd spanner method to do the rest. the point is to AVOID PII in the first place, matrix does this wonderfully. no need for mobile number or email number or your real name.

living in an actual police state, i can attest to how important that is, americans/europeans can hardly imagine.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#19

Post by ls15 »

Normille wrote: post #11
Markoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

>Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar... With those other clients you mention, one of the reasons your communications will remain secure is that --because so few people use them-- you'll struggle to find anyone to message, in the first place.

I think you are underestimating exponential growth:

https://news.itsfoss.com/matrix-sixty-million-users/

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#20

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

cpach wrote: post #14
Markoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

Signal is the most secure messaging app out there.

as i said, the MOBILE NUMBER IS A PII and the government needs just that bit to extract you from your home and subject you to anything they deem necessary in order to silence you. this is not a fairy tale i am larping about. "sealed sender" or whatever BS tech you throw at the wall doesnt make you secure. if your number can be found out, your goose is cooked.
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