Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#11

Post by JonnieCache » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:29 PM UTC

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice:

Force your legislature to start using version control.

* No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing.

* Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses down to individual lawmakers, then back to lobbyists.

* Simple diffing would prevent deliberate obfuscation tactics like burying provisions deep inside piles of irrelevant stuff.

* You could build a sweet github-style outward facing interface allowing the public to track the progress of bills in real time, increasing democratic awareness and participation.

* Legally mandated commit messages accompanying each change justifying and explaining it; force them to write these in simple english. This alone would spin 'em around so hard they wouldn't know what day it is.

* Use your imagination. I'm sure you can think of 100 reasons why this would be awesome.

Build it, open source it, then start your own lobbying/PR machine to demand that they use it. Constantly ask for justifications as to why they are not willing to use it, given the massive, obvious benefits it would bring. Ask what they have to fear from the extra scrutiny and accountability it would bring. Surely the "social media generation" can out-lobby the lobbyists? That sounds like it should be the kind of thing we're good at.

Or just forget about that entirely and try to think of some way to decimate the lobbying industry in the same way that hackers are destroying the content distribution industries and all that other stuff.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#12

Post by jaysonelliot » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

I sat and stared at that screenshot of Internet Quorum for about five minutes with a mixture of shock and despair.

I'm a user experience designer. I started my career in the mid '90s, trying to turn green-screen DOS applications into GUIs without letting things like Internet Quorum be the result. I've been fighting the good fight for fifteen years.

With that one screenshot, I felt like the whole thing had been for naught. I literally got a chill up my spine as I sat there, thinking about the stifling, bureaucratic, inflexible DMV mindset that led to an abomination like that, and realizing that even at the highest levels of government, that's what it's like.

Our entire government, from municipal planning offices up to the top levels of the Pentagon, Congress, or even the White House, lives in this world of We've Always Done It This Way and You'll Need The Proper Authorization For That.

I mean, I knew this all along, but somehow seeing that screenshot - http://www.intranetquorum.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/featu... - it hit me in a visceral way I hadn't thought about in a long time.

All these years in corporate and startup America put me in a world where the need to move faster and compete has led me to believe that things had changed since the beginning of my career. In the world I live in, they have. But I had forgotten that in many places, things haven't changed much at all.

Of course I'm upset and fuming at the massive bloated waste that is our government, and I wish we could just put on our Guy Fawkes masks and wipe it clean in one easy swoop.

Clay Johnson is right, though. We need to learn how Congress works, make better tools, get our own lobbyists to educate the dinosaurs that are there now, and get new people into office who know more about the world we live in.

It's a daunting proposition.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#13

Post by waqf » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:39 PM UTC

rasur wrote: post #8

With respect, "The Internet" also exists beyond the borders of the United States of America, so while we outside of the US can look on at this spectacle with a mixture of amusement and dread, it's just a little galling to be told to understand something we have little control over. I'm not meaning to sound disrespectful, I'm just trying to explain this slow-moving car-crash of a situation has effects outside of your…

Funnily enough, individual Americans also have little control over Congress. I think we're all in the same boat here (and I don't even think the article implied otherwise).

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#14

Post by waqf » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

jameskilton wrote: post #4

No, we are all very aware of how Congress works. Whoever has the most money to pay them (why it's not called a bribe, I'll never know) is the person who gets their ideas put into law. Congress hasn't been about the needs of the people they represent for some time now.

Congress: "No, we are all very aware of how the Internet works. OMG P1R4CY!!!1"

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#15

Post by Sayter » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:44 PM UTC

jameskilton wrote: post #4

No, we are all very aware of how Congress works. Whoever has the most money to pay them (why it's not called a bribe, I'll never know) is the person who gets their ideas put into law. Congress hasn't been about the needs of the people they represent for some time now.

If that's the case, then how does that explain SOPA? Take the two primary backers, the MPAA and RIAA: 2010 revenue for the movie industry in the United States was about $10B, while the 2010 revenue for the music industry was approximately less than or equal to that figure (RIAA's FAQ suggests $7.7B in 2009). Compare that to tech companies: Apple alone had $28.57B in the Q3 of this year (to say nothing of yearly revenue). Certainly revenue does not equal profits or market share, but the point should still be made: one technology company is arguably larger than both the movie and music industries in the United States. If the matter were as simple as money equaling laws, then SOPA should never have seen the light of day.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#16

Post by obtu » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:44 PM UTC

rasur wrote: post #8

With respect, "The Internet" also exists beyond the borders of the United States of America, so while we outside of the US can look on at this spectacle with a mixture of amusement and dread, it's just a little galling to be told to understand something we have little control over. I'm not meaning to sound disrespectful, I'm just trying to explain this slow-moving car-crash of a situation has effects outside of your…

That problem, of educating elected officials about legislation that they could get informed about from well-funded lobbies instead, exists in pretty much every government. Educating the general population so that they care is also a good idea, everywhere. And since we know this sort of proposal has been, and will be, exported, we need the same sort of understanding of our institutions that is being promoted here.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#17

Post by agentultra » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:54 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

Combined with open-data tracking it could also be possible to track the economic effects of individual policies faster and more efficiently.

I suspect that you'd see far fewer people getting into politics with a system like this.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#18

Post by epenn » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:54 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

This would indeed be great, but as Clay pointed out software like this would need to be housed on hardware belonging to Congress. That being the case, it could be very difficult to get them to agree to something having the sole purpose of holding them to a greater accountability. I'm not saying it isn't an idea worth pursuing; just that it may not be a walk in the park to get them to use it.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#19

Post by awt » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:56 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

I often reflect on how much the executive branch resembles a machine executing code. Government based on written laws has been around for such a long time that I am surprised (when I think about it) that more safeguards and tools such as version control that have evolved in the world of computer science have not naturally evolved in the world of government.

There is no reason bills could not be developed in the open over Github.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#20

Post by CWuestefeld » Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 2:59 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

Nice thoughts, but

resolve individual clauses down to individual lawmakers, then back to lobbyists.

In some cases you might be able to attribute a clause to a lobbyist, but this isn't the general case. And how could this be enforced?

outward facing interface allowing the public to track the progress of bills in real time, increasing democratic awareness and participation.

This exists, and doesn't seem to be helping. See thomas.loc.gov. For example, concerneing SOPA: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d112:1:./temp/~bdNuy... (Suggestion for enhancement: easy permalinks)

Legally mandated commit messages accompanying each change justifying and explaining it ... force them to write these in simple english

There are already requirements that bills specify the authority on which they're grounded. Most of these just wind up saying "Interstate Commerce". In other words, you'll never be able to enforce this in any meaningful way.