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Is 40 hours a week too much?

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Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#11

If you want to find the optimal number look at how many hours startup founders put in. Incentives are 100% aligned in how they benefit from their work. They have no incentive to work less or more than the optimal number of hours.

Hmm feels like the myth of the rational actor, while the incentivized may not be there, individual differences likely are.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#12

There is so much variability in the kind of work people do it's hard to make a rule that fits everyone. For knowledge workers I think 40 hours is near the top of productive time you are able to wring from people. Certainly some individuals could work much more if engaged, but on the whole, without a strong incentive otherwise, I think 40 hours is a maximum limit.

From my personal experience it's closer to 30, sometimes less depending on the level of creativity and number of independent disciplines/specialized knowledge bases I need to draw upon and unify for a solution. After that I'll happily welcome the most mundane, repetitive and simple tasks.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#13

If you want to find the optimal number look at how many hours startup founders put in. Incentives are 100% aligned in how they benefit from their work. They have no incentive to work less or more than the optimal number of hours.

This assumes that 1) they themselves know how many hours of work leads to optimal productivity [1], and 2) there are no external factors that incentivize them to work fewer or more hours for appearances' sake.

[1] If startup founders know their optimal number of hours, why wouldn't regular employees also know this? Why do you think that startup founders have privileged knowledge in this regard?

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#14
post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

There are different types of voids.

1. Non work social media. 2. Work socializing (water cooler). 3. External support/collaboration/reviews. 4. Day dreaming not about work. 5. Thinking about work while not “producing” maybe not even at computer.

I can work 40 hours where it feels like 10-20 hours are actually working on my “planned” work, but the other time is on #3 and #5 which “feels” like a void but is actually critical and valuable to business.

I’m not saying you are but some people categorize this sort of work as BS or not work and that’s totally wrong IMO.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#15
I've just started a new role as an EM and because of disability have been able to reduce my hours (and proportionally my pay) down to 20hrs per week. I work only 9am-3pm [minus 1hr for lunch] on Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri. It's going well for me so far. My cognitive hours are nicely compressed into those time windows, so although it's still hard (due to disability stuff) I'm still finding it so so much easier and more fulfilling than toiling behind a physical desk for 40-60hrs a week, half of which I'd be mostly whiling away time or doing performative work. I spent over ten years doing just that...

I look back and see so much wasted time, and saw so many colleagues who seemed drained and generally rushed to fit in 'life' things around work. Family, friends, hobbies, medical appointments, enjoying nature [...]. It should be the opposite of this. Work should come second to life, especially if we have the luxury of making it so. Otherwise, what are we all doing??

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#16
post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

My thinking time doesn't compute into my company's KPIs but it definitely is an essential part of my job.

The thing is that many modern jobs don't fit a taylorist model where you can measure worker performance precisely.

Not to mention that many variables that affect worker performance are out of control of companies.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#18
It's far more than anyone worked before the industrial revolution who wasn't enslaved. Subsistence farming or hunting and gathering don't take 40 hours a week.

The reason there's a 40 hour workweek is because socialists, anarchists, and communists fought for one. It was marketed as splitting the day into three even parts, and getting weekends off. There's nothing special about it other than it is a round number, and far more work than is necessary to produce enough to support a family, so it offers ample excess for the owners of capital.

The optimal number of hours is the least necessary to have a comfortable life.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#19

If you want to find the optimal number look at how many hours startup founders put in. Incentives are 100% aligned in how they benefit from their work. They have no incentive to work less or more than the optimal number of hours.

Hmm feels like the myth of the rational actor, while the incentivized may not be there, individual differences likely are.

Indeed. Not to mention that such assumption ignores the risks for personal health.

Plenty of startups go bankrupt and plenty of founders experience burnout, back pain, RSI etc.

Very few people can work 40+ full hours hunched on a keyboard for 3-4 decades.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#20

If you want to find the optimal number look at how many hours startup founders put in. Incentives are 100% aligned in how they benefit from their work. They have no incentive to work less or more than the optimal number of hours.

They're also solving a somewhat different problem, namely "make it to the next funding round without thinking more than a year into the future". A company which already has solid funding may well have plans on the multi-year timeframe, and should probably try to avoid burning out its people.
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