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Friendship Forever

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Re: Friendship Forever

#11

Post by unity1001 »

zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

> it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other.

In Angloamerican countries, maybe. What you call 'vulnerability and affection' is a requirement for social conduct in Mediterranean, especially Latin countries. You wont find people who behave distant like in the US, or gasp cold like in the Nordic countries. They would be either foreigners, who would be identified as such and their behavior of being cold would be considered normal because they are foreigners, or, if they look local enough, they would be thought to have psychological problems, even autistic. In Spain, there is even a proverb that goes like 'being cold like a Swede'.

And in some places, if you arent emotional and crying in important moments as a man or a woman, people could easily think that you are psychopath.

Not exaggerating or kidding. There are great differences in between cultures on the planet.

Re: Friendship Forever

#12

Post by zwkrt »

anon291 wrote: post #7
dmitriid wrote: post #2

I came to study in Turkey in 1999. Until about 2003 or so it was still very common to see male friends holding hands. It became very uncommon towards mid-naughts.

As awareness of homosexuality and acceptance of it spreads, friendly measures like this between platonic friends become less common. This is not a moral judgement, just an observation. People don't want to be seen or feel like they're seen as something theyre not.

The idea that gay people having more social standing and more rights has somehow ruined straight relationships is laughable. You’re saying that when being gay was literally a criminal offense straight guys didn’t have to worry about holding hands?

Re: Friendship Forever

#13

Post by zwkrt »

unity1001 wrote: post #11
zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

> it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. In Angloamerican countries, maybe. What you call 'vulnerability and affection' is a requirement for social conduct in Mediterranean, especially Latin countries. You wont find people who behave distant like in the US, or gasp cold like in the Nordic countries. They would be either foreigners, who would be identi…

Agreed, I’m definitely coming at this as an American. Even more so as a Seattleite, a place known for its relative social coldness even by US standards.

Re: Friendship Forever

#14

Post by fruit2020 »

zwkrt wrote: post #10
fruit2020 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even going to a pub with a friend and I get strange looks. 2 straight guys having some beers. I guess gayness ruined the rainbow for everybody else.

Let’s be clear homophobia (with a root in misogyny)“ruined the rainbow” for everybody else. The only funny looks you’re getting are from close minded people. And it’s only ruined for you (the hypothetical you, not making assumptions) because of your own shame in potentially being perceived as gay by others.

You’re right. I din’t want to be perceived as gay. What is wrong with that? I have so many gay people I know. My dentist, my next door neighbors, my ex boss, my ex classmate, some work colleagues. I get along with all of them. Live and let live. Let me enjoy being straight.

Re: Friendship Forever

#15

Post by themacguffinman »

charlie0 wrote: post #9
zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

I think that hard times is what really creates that sense of brotherhood. Unfortunately, in the modern western world, it has become really easy to avoid serious hardships once you get even to a modest level of income. I've wanted to do challenging things with acquaintances of mine, but they just don't pan out. I invite people to the gym, I invite them on long hikes, I ask them to do something challenging with me, but…

Is that unfortunate? If you've managed to avoid serious hardships with a modest level of income, do you need that sense of brotherhood? Brotherhood is forged in hard times because it's necessary in hard times. It strikes me a bit like looking for an emergency prepper kit in a land that doesn't have serious natural disasters. It's as if you're saying the old Chinese curse to yourself "may you live in interesting times".

Re: Friendship Forever

#16

Post by JetAlone »

zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

I'm a man. I don't even like showing tremendous physical intimacy with the women I go out with on dates. I hate it when people at my workplace or church touch me. My brain says "Get away from me, all of you".

Re: Friendship Forever

#17

Post by zwkrt »

JetAlone wrote: post #16
zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

I'm a man. I don't even like showing tremendous physical intimacy with the women I go out with on dates. I hate it when people at my workplace or church touch me. My brain says "Get away from me, all of you".

No post body was provided.

Re: Friendship Forever

#18

Post by jimkleiber »

zwkrt wrote: post #3

It’s funny as a gay man to see all of these pictures because they really do read to me as gay with my modern lens. That isn’t because of some sort of special gaydar it’s just so uncommon to see straight men showing any type of vulnerability or affection with each other. I have a friend who’s been playing soccer with the same team for 10 years and he came to me saying he realize that he didn’t know anything about thei…

I'm a guy and have been focused on building tools to explore emotions for like 10 years. I think a lot of us men lack intimacy with close friends, especially emotional, because we lack it with ourselves.

The analogy that came to mind this morning is that of a swimming pool. If intimacy is the depth of water, many of us are afraid to go into the deep end. We want to feel the narrow slice of what we've learned is ok to feel, aka stay in the shallow end of the pool because it's safe. Maybe in the past we went into the deep end (often falling in love and then it ending) and we almost drowned, and therefore we may be terrified to go back there, even if we are a much better swimmer that we think we are.

Also, I don't think this applies just to men, as I was crafting this analogy today as a result of a woman who wants to seem to avoid going too deep with me or other people in her life right now, whereas I want the depth.

Re: Friendship Forever

#19

Post by et-al »

dmitriid wrote: post #2

I came to study in Turkey in 1999. Until about 2003 or so it was still very common to see male friends holding hands. It became very uncommon towards mid-naughts.

There's an old NYTimes article from 1985 that mentioned this change in Italy: https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/10/magazine/about-men-making...

It's unfortunate.

Re: Friendship Forever

#20

Post by JetAlone »

zwkrt wrote: post #17
JetAlone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a man. I don't even like showing tremendous physical intimacy with the women I go out with on dates. I hate it when people at my workplace or church touch me. My brain says "Get away from me, all of you".

Quoted post unavailable.

I probably gave that impression by describing it in such dramatic terms. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I don't like being touched much in general by anyone, and who I'm attracted to isn't part of that.
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