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So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

words.filippo.io

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Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#11

Post by ipython »

dspillett wrote: post #2

This is something that is difficult when trying to encourage less technical users to be secure. Once you convince them to do things right, they've heard of circumstances like this and are petrified of accidentally losing something. In a commercial environment there are ways and means¹ but getting a non-technical user to securely and safely manage access credentials is can be a time consuming education process. Especi…

Everyone forgets about the CIA triad - security is not just about confidentiality, but also integrity and availability.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#13

Post by nutto »

BitLocker does this much better. With TPM+PIN mode, the TPM will only decrypt the volume master key if all the right hashes are in the platform configuration registers for the BIOS, option ROMs, MBR, filesystem headers and bootloader, and the user-specified PIN is correct. Or if you enter the 128-bit recovery key.

The BSDs and Linux have a lot of catching up to do.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#14

Post by klodolph »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #10
klodolph wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solutions, that don't involve someone being an unpaid 24/7 infrastructure support tech, on a postcard please! One step at a time! 1. Back up your data. 2. Test restoring your data. 3. Automate your backups. 4. Automate your test restores. 5. Now you are ready for full-disk encryption. It is okay if you do not complete all steps. More steps is better. Do not skip ahead.

So as long as you keep your data unencrypted next to your encrypted data, you're fine. Checks out.

I get it, it’s fun to make jabs at posts on HN. You don’t need to lean so hard into the trope.

I may have assumed that your backups were encrypted, just because so many backup tools do it automatically. And I didn’t put that in the post. Predictably, I get some kind of jerk replying to the comment with a sarcastic jab, rather than any kind of interesting discussion.

Accidental data loss is the big risk, and for most people, it’s a bigger risk than any risk of someone reading your unencrypted data. It makes sense to start with the most serious risks (data loss), and work your way down to the minor risks (compromise).

It makes not sense to start by encrypting your data, because it significantly increases your risk of data loss, in the absence of good backups. That’s what the article is talking about.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#15

Post by userbinator »

With encryption, you always have to balance the risk of having others access to your data to that of you also potentially losing access to your data forever. In other words, is it more important that no one, not even myself, can gain access, or is it more important that I can always have access, even if that means everyone else could? I suspect for much of the data people have, they'll categorise it as the latter instead of the former.

If you're looking for something in between, then deliberately weaker encryption might be what you want, although almost no one seems to mention that much.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#16

Post by marginalia_nu »

klodolph wrote: post #14
marginalia_nu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as long as you keep your data unencrypted next to your encrypted data, you're fine. Checks out.

I get it, it’s fun to make jabs at posts on HN. You don’t need to lean so hard into the trope. I may have assumed that your backups were encrypted, just because so many backup tools do it automatically. And I didn’t put that in the post. Predictably, I get some kind of jerk replying to the comment with a sarcastic jab, rather than any kind of interesting discussion. Accidental data loss is the big risk, and for most…

I legitimately didn't, and still don't, see how this solves the problem of less technical users losing their encryption keys.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#17

Post by walrus01 »

userbinator wrote: post #15

With encryption, you always have to balance the risk of having others access to your data to that of you also potentially losing access to your data forever. In other words, is it more important that no one, not even myself, can gain access, or is it more important that I can always have access, even if that means everyone else could? I suspect for much of the data people have, they'll categorise it as the latter ins…

If you're worried about something like what happens to your FDE volumes after you die, and you don't want to write down a passphrase somewhere, you could do something like pick three extremely trustworthy family members, swear them to secrecy, and give each of them one third of the passphrase.

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#18

Post by briHass »

dspillett wrote: post #2

This is something that is difficult when trying to encourage less technical users to be secure. Once you convince them to do things right, they've heard of circumstances like this and are petrified of accidentally losing something. In a commercial environment there are ways and means¹ but getting a non-technical user to securely and safely manage access credentials is can be a time consuming education process. Especi…

This is why Microsoft Windows is so adamant about having you create an online account as your means of sign-in on modern Windows versions. FDE requires it on some versions.

Telling users that forgot their password that not only do they need to reinstall Windows, but that every single document, photo, video of their grandkids, etc. is now lost forever is untenable. At the same time, FDE is important for security, so what is a reasonable compromise? Allow some form of online recovery options (secured by the full expertise of MS security folks) by linking an account to serve as your 'IT-guy managed AD in the cloud'

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#19

Post by orangepurple »

walrus01 wrote: post #17
userbinator wrote: post #15

With encryption, you always have to balance the risk of having others access to your data to that of you also potentially losing access to your data forever. In other words, is it more important that no one, not even myself, can gain access, or is it more important that I can always have access, even if that means everyone else could? I suspect for much of the data people have, they'll categorise it as the latter ins…

If you're worried about something like what happens to your FDE volumes after you die, and you don't want to write down a passphrase somewhere, you could do something like pick three extremely trustworthy family members, swear them to secrecy, and give each of them one third of the passphrase.

Guaranteed one of them will lose a piece

Re: So I lost my OpenBSD FDE password (2016)

#20

Post by klodolph »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #16
klodolph wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it, it’s fun to make jabs at posts on HN. You don’t need to lean so hard into the trope. I may have assumed that your backups were encrypted, just because so many backup tools do it automatically. And I didn’t put that in the post. Predictably, I get some kind of jerk replying to the comment with a sarcastic jab, rather than any kind of interesting discussion. Accidental data loss is the big risk, and for most…

I legitimately didn't, and still don't, see how this solves the problem of less technical users losing their encryption keys.

Because it gives you a longer period of time to learn the keys without consequences if you forget.

If you encrypt your HD, you’re suddenly in a position where forgetting your key will lose all your data. It’s like walking off a cliff and hoping you can fly.

If you start by making backups and doing test restores, there’s a period of time where you are still forced to remember the key (to do the restore), but the consequences for losing it are low.

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