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Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

underorion.se

11–20 of 105 posts

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#11
post #10

If you want to see a real world attempt at an overton window shift look no further than the actions of useful idiot [1] Kathy Griffin and her severed head controversy. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/comedy/kath...

That is such an obscure reference out of all the examples reality has provided in the past few years. Why did you pick this one specifically

Because she got banned from Twitter and it makes Elon Musk look bad.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#12

Warning: article contains no opportunities, just a list of conformities you can probably already guess. For all the hand wringing about virtue signaling, it seems like there are more redundant declarations of iconoclasty than anything else. This is literally the only genre less interesting than a well-known consensus opinion.

You seem to have completely missed the main point. Your ideological bias is showing here: "He's saying virtue signaling is bad. I can stop reading now." > Instead, I’d like to argue that the market, at least important parts of it, may have become notably less efficient due to changes to the information landscape. That's the point. The narrower the window of acceptable discourse, the more opportunity there is in looki…

Oh no, I got the point - the idea that groupthink leads to inefficient markets is not exactly new, so it is easy even for someone at my speed to grasp. (And to the author's credit, he avoids mentioning virtue signaling.) The problem is that the article does nothing except state that things feel homogeneous to author, with no demonstration of the opportunities presented. So, it's a restatement of a very common pose: I see further than the masses.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#13
post #7

The term is named after American policy analyst Joseph Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences. According to Overton, the window frames the range of policies that a politician can recommend without appearing too extreme to gain or keep public office given the climate of public opinion at that time.

Also worth mentioning that the window doesn't have a set direction in the short term. It can move back and forth, expand, and shrink fairly arbitrarily. It also largely depends on the spectrum parameters specified.

I don't believe in it as a concrete, measureable thing; I do believe in it as a signal for disposition over time.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#14

Warning: article contains no opportunities, just a list of conformities you can probably already guess. For all the hand wringing about virtue signaling, it seems like there are more redundant declarations of iconoclasty than anything else. This is literally the only genre less interesting than a well-known consensus opinion.

You seem to have completely missed the main point. Your ideological bias is showing here: "He's saying virtue signaling is bad. I can stop reading now." > Instead, I’d like to argue that the market, at least important parts of it, may have become notably less efficient due to changes to the information landscape. That's the point. The narrower the window of acceptable discourse, the more opportunity there is in looki…

And those who enforce the orthodoxy and end up being wrong look ignorant or foolish (at best) or liars and propagandists (at worst).

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#16
It never ceases to amaze me how experts at something can't resist trying to be experts at everything. His examples from political science are just so off, but I have to concentrate on his example of Mearsheimer. Far from being one step or two ahead of the crowd, Mearsheimer's problem has been that he's still standing back in the 1980s. His realpolitik approach was refreshing and appealing for the time whensomewhat phony Cold War ideology and its false equivalences and distinctions permeated our politics and academia. But in trying to fit world events to his great power nonsense, he deeply distorted what happened in Ukraine in 2014 and seems unable to see that Russia has never truly acted like a modern state but remains an internal empire that while spanning a continent has an economy the size of Brazil, and less institutional capacity than most Latin American nations. The idea that we could somehow make common cause with Russia to counter China's rise has always been an old joke. The 2022 war in Ukraine was expertly predicted by a political scientist, but it was in 1993, when my grad school professor Ilya Prizel pushed back against all the End of History BS and said Russia would eventually assert itself in the middle of Europe, if desperately. He was dead right.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#17
post #7

The term is named after American policy analyst Joseph Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences. According to Overton, the window frames the range of policies that a politician can recommend without appearing too extreme to gain or keep public office given the climate of public opinion at that time.

The window is bifurcating. The political left and right have moved so far apart that "middle ground" ideas appeal to very few and the extremes have more viability.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have completely missed the main point. Your ideological bias is showing here: "He's saying virtue signaling is bad. I can stop reading now." > Instead, I’d like to argue that the market, at least important parts of it, may have become notably less efficient due to changes to the information landscape. That's the point. The narrower the window of acceptable discourse, the more opportunity there is in looki…

And those who enforce the orthodoxy and end up being wrong look ignorant or foolish (at best) or liars and propagandists (at worst).

Actually, no. This is a theme of mine:

There is very little penalty to being wrong.

If the orthodox position was what you took, then you have a lot of company in your wrongness. Everyone else will sympathize, because they were wrong, too.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#19
post #13
post #7

The term is named after American policy analyst Joseph Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences. According to Overton, the window frames the range of policies that a politician can recommend without appearing too extreme to gain or keep public office given the climate of public opinion at that time.

Also worth mentioning that the window doesn't have a set direction in the short term. It can move back and forth, expand, and shrink fairly arbitrarily. It also largely depends on the spectrum parameters specified. I don't believe in it as a concrete, measureable thing; I do believe in it as a signal for disposition over time.

Over the long term, though, it moves left. Opinions in 1800 were far further right than far-right of today.

It’s one reason the old tend to be conservative. They were born at a fixed slice of the Overton window, which moved left, carrying them right.

Re: Overton's window creates opportunities for the brave

#20
post #17
post #7

The term is named after American policy analyst Joseph Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences. According to Overton, the window frames the range of policies that a politician can recommend without appearing too extreme to gain or keep public office given the climate of public opinion at that time.

The window is bifurcating. The political left and right have moved so far apart that "middle ground" ideas appeal to very few and the extremes have more viability.

Wedge issues have really split us irrationally. Group A tells scary bedtime stories to their children using caricatures of an average Group B position as a way to maintain in-group discipline.

What seems to be new now, is that Group B has taken to espousing Group A's caricature as a way of proving their group identity. "Group A says we eat babies. I eat more babies than anyone else, proving my Group B bonafides!" If you want to stand out in the primaries, you can't be a competent, coalition-building centrist. You gotta eat more babies than the next guy.

Current political system reinforces extremism. I'm of the camp that believes we urgently need incremental reforms like Ranked Choice Voting and open primaries. It doesn't solve everything, but it's the reform we can do that gives us the most mileage today.

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