Live data from Hacker News

The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

11–20 of 90 posts

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#11
post #9

I think we'll discover that the post-vax myocarditis and pericarditis were caused by pre-existing, latent COVID infections. This probably means that there's a large number of people walking around with completely asymptomatic infections until the body attacks it either because of a vaccination or it finally stumbles across it and generates an immune response.

A tag-along tangent to that: I'm curious as to the cases where there are adverse reactions to the vaccine, what is the probability/possibility that the individual's response would be comparable if exposed to the virus directly.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#12

Quoted post unavailable.

The title of the post needs to reflect the title in the article, except when it is blatant clickbait, and to allow for the HN title length limits.

There is no question mark in the article's title.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#13

I got OG Covid very early in 2020. I had something like a heart attack about six months later. It has not reoccurred. I suspect I had something kind of like a stroke a bit ago. The event was accompanied with very terrifying and specific neurological event. A loud noise that was only inside my head and unreal "sounding" that worked like a corkscrew from the right side of my head to the front while my vision dimmed. I…

I'm sorry. I got Omicron in January '22 despite being double vaxx'd, and I felt totally fine until 3-4 mo. later when I started to get recurrent dizzy spells, major fatigue, and bouts of anxiety, which are all very unusual for me. Checkup / bloodwork showed nothing. I am 41 y.o. who exercise regularly, does not smoke, rarely drinks, etc. So far I can still function and maintain a job, but it makes me wonder what's go…

My sister recommended Wim Hoff. I'll scope it out. I had been considering buying an o2 concentrator since 2020 and I do have some voice/breath training and have found some exercises related to that that aren't dissimilar from Wim Hoff show some reduction in symptoms.

Honestly, I feel very lucky to be as functional as I am. I do worry about how medical and political systems are responding to COVID and long COVID, but largely I think good care is going to come from the bottom up and not top down. I'm comfortable(ish) with a reality that I might just suddenly drop dead tomorrow, but this experience has given me a new appreciation for the health I have that I could not have fathomed before. Because I can alleviate symptoms with diet and directed exercise and it does appear to have a cumulative effect on their reduction, I think recovery is possible without intense intervention. I don't even mind being more spacey and a bit dumber. It suits me a bit and has changed the pace of my life in a way that once I embraced has been good.

My biggest worry is that if I suddenly die and how devastating that would be for people that depend on me, but I think without an infection of a new virus or several viruses I might live a shorter, but alright life. My chance of suddenly dying because I got light headed in an elevator now being slightly higher than my chance of being crushed by a vending machine.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry. I got Omicron in January '22 despite being double vaxx'd, and I felt totally fine until 3-4 mo. later when I started to get recurrent dizzy spells, major fatigue, and bouts of anxiety, which are all very unusual for me. Checkup / bloodwork showed nothing. I am 41 y.o. who exercise regularly, does not smoke, rarely drinks, etc. So far I can still function and maintain a job, but it makes me wonder what's go…

Low dose aspirin worked for me, YMMV.

There's a balance with that sort of thing though. Thinner blood to alleviate the constriction, if kept constant can cause other problems. Definitely not the worst band aid in the world though.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#15
When reading this sentence:

> We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection.

you should be careful not to interpret this as evidence of absence. The previous sentence gives confidence intervals:

> Post COVID-19 infection was not associated with either myocarditis (aHR 1.08; 95% CI 0.45 to 2.56) or pericarditis (aHR 0.53; 95% CI 0.25 to 1.13).

Here a 95% CI from 0.45 to 2.56 means that the data is statistically consistent with myocarditis being 0.45 times as likely in people with COVID infection, or 2.56 times more likely.

The sample size here is simply not enough to be more precise, simply because myocarditis and pericarditis are so rare. (It's hard to be precise about the rate of something that happened in only nine COVID patients in the study!) Hence you should not interpret this as demonstrating no difference between people with and without prior COVID infection -- merely bounding the size of the difference that may exist, and saying it can't be more than roughly a factor of 2.5-3.

To be blunt, the authors are wrong to say in their Conclusion that "Our data suggest that there is no increase in the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in COVID-19 recovered patients compared to uninfected matched controls." Again, the confidence interval shows that a 2x increased incidence of myocarditis would be consistent with the data.

This is a widespread misinterpretation of statistics and one that has been around for decades, so please excuse me for taking every opportunity to complain. (e.g. https://www.statisticsdonewrong.com/power.html#the-power-of-...)

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#16

I got OG Covid very early in 2020. I had something like a heart attack about six months later. It has not reoccurred. I suspect I had something kind of like a stroke a bit ago. The event was accompanied with very terrifying and specific neurological event. A loud noise that was only inside my head and unreal "sounding" that worked like a corkscrew from the right side of my head to the front while my vision dimmed. I…

I didn't have the neuro event or symptoms, but the dinner plate and cardio helping sounds awfully familiar.

As far as I know I did not contract COVID, however I was part of the early response team for isolation after travel for the US Military so was exposed on several occasions early on and could have been asymptomatic.

My first vaccine was a non-event; the second fostered a reaction so bad I almost went to the hospital. 103F fever, rigor (shivering so bad you lock up), etc. for about 8 hours, then the fever broke and I recovered fine.

I had an anxiety induced possible cardiac event about a year after that (March 22), but I went to the ER and there was no EKG evidence and no troponin. Was monitored for 12 hours to be sure.

I have had a weird vertigo issue crop up; I actually managed to have exactly what causes it diagnosed! One of the inner ear canals has dropped it's output signal about 75%; no evidence to why the nerves were damaged. I am slowly adjusting. I have no idea if it's related.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#17

I got OG Covid very early in 2020. I had something like a heart attack about six months later. It has not reoccurred. I suspect I had something kind of like a stroke a bit ago. The event was accompanied with very terrifying and specific neurological event. A loud noise that was only inside my head and unreal "sounding" that worked like a corkscrew from the right side of my head to the front while my vision dimmed. I…

I'm sorry. I got Omicron in January '22 despite being double vaxx'd, and I felt totally fine until 3-4 mo. later when I started to get recurrent dizzy spells, major fatigue, and bouts of anxiety, which are all very unusual for me. Checkup / bloodwork showed nothing. I am 41 y.o. who exercise regularly, does not smoke, rarely drinks, etc. So far I can still function and maintain a job, but it makes me wonder what's go…

I had a vertigo issue crop up recently and was able to get it diagnosed (working in military aviation they take this stuff pretty seriously); I don't know that it will help but it's one avenue to look down:

One of my inner ear canal output signals dropped by about 75%. There is a diagnostic test they can do; more basic tests showed nothing but this more sensitive one showed it clear as day. No-one can tall me WHY the nerves are outputting a weaker signal and I couldn't tell you if it's related but it's something that doesn't get checked much.

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#18

When reading this sentence: > We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection. you should be careful not to interpret this as evidence of absence. The previous sentence gives confidence intervals: > Post COVID-19 infection was not associated with either myocarditis (aHR 1.08; 95% CI 0.45 to 2.56) or pericarditis (aHR 0.53; 95% CI 0…

right, i was going to make a similar kind of critique (but probably less lucidly). the effect sizes are tiny and the confidence intervals overwhelm the supposed conclusions. seems to be motivated reasoning rather than impartial science.

covid may cause a rise in heart disease in unvaxed individuals relative to vaxed, but this study does nothing to support, and especially doesn't prove, that contention. one thing it does reveal is that the overall incidence rates for myo-/pericarditis are pretty small, vaxed or otherwise.

what would be more interesting is a comparative study of incidence relative to similar cardiopulmonary infections like the flu. that would tell us whether heart disease from covid is something to worry more about than our ambient worry over heart disease in general (which seems relatively mild compared to covid).

Re: The incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in unvaccinated Covid patients

#19

I got OG Covid very early in 2020. I had something like a heart attack about six months later. It has not reoccurred. I suspect I had something kind of like a stroke a bit ago. The event was accompanied with very terrifying and specific neurological event. A loud noise that was only inside my head and unreal "sounding" that worked like a corkscrew from the right side of my head to the front while my vision dimmed. I…

I'm sorry. I got Omicron in January '22 despite being double vaxx'd, and I felt totally fine until 3-4 mo. later when I started to get recurrent dizzy spells, major fatigue, and bouts of anxiety, which are all very unusual for me. Checkup / bloodwork showed nothing. I am 41 y.o. who exercise regularly, does not smoke, rarely drinks, etc. So far I can still function and maintain a job, but it makes me wonder what's go…

I had an 8 week dizzy spell in fall of 2020. Never had anything like it before, didn’t have any other symptoms. Went to ENT and ears were completely fine.

I have no idea if it was anxiety or Covid, but the dizziness was disorienting, at the worst I couldn’t walk , it felt like I was on a boat. During this time I had anxiety attacks almost non stop-triggered by the vertigo. As soon as I started to notice the vertigo I would begin to spiral because it was so unprecedented and disorienting. It just cleared up on its own after 8 weeks.

Part of the vertigo was dizzy spells every time I stood up.

I had ~ptsd from it for a full year, every time I stood up I would brace for the vertigo ,

Hope you find some relief soon

Post reply on HN