To get kids into science, just do it • Hacker News Board

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#11

Post by karmakurtisaani » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:47 AM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

This is a very much valid point. Science is amazingly cool, but gives you a pretty shit life.

I'll encourage my kids towards science as much as needed and let their develop their thinking while they're at it, and congratulate them for the enlightenment when they come tell me that working as a scientist sucks. It's still really good for them to pursue that career early, if it's what they enjoy.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#12

Post by karmakurtisaani » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:50 AM UTC

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #7

auxym wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's satire. STEM is pushed hard, but realistically, science and math dont have that great career prospects. For one thing, a PhD, and the 4-7 year opportunity cost that comes with it, is pretty much required to get anything more than a lab tech job. After that PhD, where do you go? You can try for an insanely competitive tenure track faculty position. Or a very limited number of industry researcher job…

I mean, usually you just end up trading stonk at Renaissance Technologies or PanAgora. I'm not studying anything finance related and haven't even finished my phd and they've still been actively after me to sell my soul for mid six figures. The worst part was, I did the interviews to get an offer and everyone I talked to was tangibly brilliant- like could really be changing the world instead of this. I almost did it f…

Knowing what I know now, I would have jumped ship in your shoes in an instant. After 5 years of that work you could be free from working ever again and do whatever you feel like. I've heard that RT for example can pay you up to 1M per year for entry level, and looking at their profit margins I don't really doubt it.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#13

Post by ourmandave » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:52 AM UTC

Metacelsus wrote: post #5

I'm very glad for my parents for getting me an actually good home chemistry set and then letting me experiment with it.

For birthdays and Christmas were you always asking for chemicals from the "Things I Won't Work With" list?

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#14

Post by mcculley » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:55 AM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

I think your assessment is not based on the current labor market. I am aware of scientists with a fresh B.S. making that much. I do agree that there is little economic value in most Ph.D. programs.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#15

Post by marginalia_nu » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:56 AM UTC

dislikedtom2 wrote: post #3

I remember being interested in sciences as a kid, but every time I asked for a chemistry kit or anything practical, I just got books and documentaries. Don't be those parents.

Different strokes I guess? I was always much more into the books and was put off by having to experiment. (Then I did go on to study theoretical physics ...)

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#16

Post by ourmandave » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:56 AM UTC

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #12

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, usually you just end up trading stonk at Renaissance Technologies or PanAgora. I'm not studying anything finance related and haven't even finished my phd and they've still been actively after me to sell my soul for mid six figures. The worst part was, I did the interviews to get an offer and everyone I talked to was tangibly brilliant- like could really be changing the world instead of this. I almost did it f…

Knowing what I know now, I would have jumped ship in your shoes in an instant. After 5 years of that work you could be free from working ever again and do whatever you feel like. I've heard that RT for example can pay you up to 1M per year for entry level, and looking at their profit margins I don't really doubt it.

Had to look it up.

The starting salary for a research scientist is $170 - $205K.

https://www.rentec.com/Careers.action?researchScientist=true

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#17

Post by mcculley » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:56 AM UTC

auxym wrote: post #6

dislikedtom2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not able to tell if this comment is satire and it worries me.

I don't think it's satire. STEM is pushed hard, but realistically, science and math dont have that great career prospects. For one thing, a PhD, and the 4-7 year opportunity cost that comes with it, is pretty much required to get anything more than a lab tech job. After that PhD, where do you go? You can try for an insanely competitive tenure track faculty position. Or a very limited number of industry researcher job…

The current labor market is paying much better than before for scientists with just a B.S.

I do agree that there is little economic value in most Ph.D. programs.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#18

Post by chriskanan » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 11:59 AM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

As a scientist, I'd say this claim doesn't hold true for many scientific disciplines. I know scientists working in biopharma earning over $1M per year.

That said, I do think the salary mentioned is accurate as a starting salary in academia for a research faculty position (tenure track starting salary in USA is ~50% higher though), but academia pays much worse than industry. You give up salary for huge amounts of autonomy.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#19

Post by scotty79 » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 12:01 PM UTC

> As many other studies have shown, when children hear descriptions of categories, whether “apples are red” or “scientists are smart,” they infer that members of those categories have special, exclusive characteristics.

My friend in college had a mannerism that when he was about to give up on understanding something he was saying "it's for smart people to figure out". It always elicited visceral reaction from me "No, eff that. We are the smart people. We can figure this out."

I guess our upbringing was somewhat different.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#20

Post by Avicebron » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 12:06 PM UTC

mcculley wrote: post #17

auxym wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's satire. STEM is pushed hard, but realistically, science and math dont have that great career prospects. For one thing, a PhD, and the 4-7 year opportunity cost that comes with it, is pretty much required to get anything more than a lab tech job. After that PhD, where do you go? You can try for an insanely competitive tenure track faculty position. Or a very limited number of industry researcher job…

The current labor market is paying much better than before for scientists with just a B.S. I do agree that there is little economic value in most Ph.D. programs.

From my experience working in biotech I would say certainly a B.S. in a scientific field (like biochemistry, etc.) There is often a hard cap in the career trajectory without a PhD. Often there are enough PhDs out there that moving into management in industry often requires this vs. Stagnating as a lab scientist without a huge upward spike in income/responsibilities.