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Open source is democratizing video game development

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Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#11

Post by opyate »

kotlin2 wrote: post #6
torginus wrote: post #5

Lol, what a word salad. What is the thing that's being democratized right now, as opposed to when Unreal or Unity became available (or XNA, or BASIC on the C64), and how is open source involved? Godot, Phaser, etc. have existed for about a decade. From the article: “You don’t necessarily need advanced programming and graphics skills to make a polished and professional game anymore,” Yes you do, if you want to do anyt…

One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.

> How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste?

Here you go:

https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#12

Post by mattnewport »

The article mentions asset stores / packs as part of the democratization but that is also often the biggest barrier to open sourcing games. Solo or small indie developers often rely on asset stores for at least part of their content and that usually means they can't open source their entire game even if they wanted to as licenses for assets usually do not allow for redistribution in this form.

If you want to open source a game you generally need to plan for it from the start and only use assets that you fully own or that have licenses that allow redistribution.

You can open source just the code but this is limited in what it allows others to do in terms of contributing to or remixing the game. Even learning from the code is limited if you don't have access to the assets such that you can run the code and make changes.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#13

Post by tredre3 »

yazzku wrote: post #3

Let's stop spreading this corporate propaganda. Microsoft's goal is to kill software freedom, and the goal of these Github articles is to give the company a facelift. If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? Get the hell out of Github and stop spreading this naivete on HN. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-la... https://githubcopilotinv…

> If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary?

DirectX is (and as far as I can tell, always has been) free to use by anyone.

Which part of DirectX would you like them to open-source that would improve accessibility?

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#14

Post by vacuumcl »

kotlin2 wrote: post #10
chii wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

A lot of that is polish to make the game feel great. You should play Matty’s game Jumper. The game was made with Game Maker back in the early 2000s, which was targeted to low-code users back then. The game mechanics are very similar to Celeste. Despite the lack of polish, it’s still a very entertaining game.

Not the person you were replying to, but that takes me back! Back in those days I was in early high school and Jumper was one of the games I looked up to when I was learning Game Maker. I completely forgot about it.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#15

Post by tyleo »

chii wrote: post #9
kotlin2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

Frankly this still doesn’t seem technically challenging. It does seem like a different sort of design challenge though to get all of the little mechanics correct. This isn’t like inventing a new algorithm though. I suspect implementing this is more like constantly iterative tweaks and “feeling out” whether the controls are right.

The end result looks complicated but no sort of specialized engineering skill seems necessary to achieve the result. Just grit and design talent.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#16

Post by torginus »

chii wrote: post #9
kotlin2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

It's kind of weird how terrible this code is (according to software design 'best practices'). 5k lines in a single file, tons of repetition that could be replaced with more compact code etc.

I would think the author was a novice programmer, but looking at the creator's history they've already made Towerfall, another hugely acclaimed game (and one I still play to this day), about 5 years before this was released.

Yet the game itself is extremely polished.

I kind of have no idea where to take this thought, except that successful auters have very different sensibilities than garden variety programmers.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#17

Post by chii »

torginus wrote: post #16
chii wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

It's kind of weird how terrible this code is (according to software design 'best practices'). 5k lines in a single file, tons of repetition that could be replaced with more compact code etc. I would think the author was a novice programmer, but looking at the creator's history they've already made Towerfall, another hugely acclaimed game (and one I still play to this day), about 5 years before this was released. Yet…

> (according to software design 'best practices')

that's because these best practices aren't geared towards producing something good - it's geared towards making something easy to understand for someone else, and easy to maintain when requirements change.

It is also designed for the lowest common denominator programmers - so that many can work on the same code base, over a long period of time.

For games, none of these goals matter at all.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#18

Post by chii »

tyleo wrote: post #15
chii wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

Frankly this still doesn’t seem technically challenging. It does seem like a different sort of design challenge though to get all of the little mechanics correct. This isn’t like inventing a new algorithm though. I suspect implementing this is more like constantly iterative tweaks and “feeling out” whether the controls are right. The end result looks complicated but no sort of specialized engineering skill seems nece…

I think you're discounting too much the level of skill that 'grit and talent' requires. Cos it is exactly inventing a new algorithm - just not via mathematical proof or vigorous formality.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#19

Post by aliqot »

tredre3 wrote: post #13
yazzku wrote: post #3

Let's stop spreading this corporate propaganda. Microsoft's goal is to kill software freedom, and the goal of these Github articles is to give the company a facelift. If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? Get the hell out of Github and stop spreading this naivete on HN. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-la... https://githubcopilotinv…

> If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? DirectX is (and as far as I can tell, always has been) free to use by anyone. Which part of DirectX would you like them to open-source that would improve accessibility?

none of it. directx is a cope.

Re: Open source is democratizing video game development

#20

Post by solardev »

opyate wrote: post #11
kotlin2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.

> How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Here you go: https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049

I don't typically enjoy platformers, but as both a gamer and a dev, I really appreciate the amount of polish that went into this!
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