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Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

arstechnica.com

11–20 of 57 posts

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#11
This is an extremely foolish title, and the tone of the article is likewise foolish. It's highly unlikely the Supreme Court has not read the amicus briefs, and almost impossible that they will not before passing judgement. These are not 9 people picked off the street and thrown on the bench to judge what the application of law is, and they don't mess around. Reading pretty much any Supreme Court decision will show you how intelligent these nine justices are.

It's popular to condemn the Supreme Court's decisions if you disagree with them, and it seems equally popular to blame them on the Supreme Court's fundamental misunderstanding of . I'm not saying the SCotUS is flawless—hardly, they are made up of people—but it would behoove authors and readers if you started from the base assumption that you are dealing with brilliant jurists. Indeed, that is how lawyers have to prepare.

The lawyers arguing against the patent were likely aware both of the justices' intelligence and their general interpretations of patent law, therefore chose not to tread the path of invalidating medical patents in general. The questions asked by the justices were fair. Not expressing skepticism does not mean there is no skepticism, for one. We don't find that out until the decisions are written.

Whether this was a case where someone should have gone after medical patents in general is up for debate. In particular, it seems unlikely that the Mayo clinic, which probably has its own medical patents, would try to invalidate the concept itself.

If you read some more of the questions and interactions, you'll see that the Supreme Court seems anything but oblivious: they're trying to probe what should and should not be patentable in a field that involves actions and reactions that are all based in chemical fact. If neither they nor the lawyers can provide a satisfactory test to determine this, then all they can do is decide the specifics of this case.

True change in this area really is something where the Court can only do so much. The definitions of patents in general are determined by Congress and its laws. If we want to change them, we have to focus there. SCotUS has merely become our backup because it's been relatively difficult, particularly in the last 40 years or so, to convince Congress to pass laws that are potentially damaging in any way to the bottom lines of businesses.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#12

At this point I might just change careers. Lawyer sounds like a pretty good gig right now.

You might be interested to hear about the Ticketmaster class action settlement I learned I was a party to in my email this morning.

Lawyers get $16 million, members of the class get coupons on future Ticketmaster purchases.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#13

Honestly, this is probably the best possible thing. The reality is that under the Patent Act, things which are not fundamentally "inventions" -- such as software algorithms, genes, and in this case, data correlations -- can legally be granted patents. This is a problem with the Act, not with any given court's interpretation of it, and that is what needs to change. I can think of no better way to build political suppo…

I don't see this happening. Patients (in the US) don't know the cost of their care. So, when this new "patent tax" appears, it will be hidden from the consumer and silently passed down the chain (to insurers, to companies) and medical costs will continue to spiral out of control. It's unlikely to actually change the care provided -- but it's certain to make care more expensive.

I wouldn't count on congress fixing it either. I'll pass on something I recently overheard: "Lawyers should be banned from becoming law makers. It's a clear conflict of interest. "

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#14
post #3

I wonder if they would consider CPR to be patentable. Truly Dr. Heimlich missed an opportunity when he failed to patent his "trademark" maneuver. In the future, perhaps we'll be expected to wear bracelets (or microchips) that tell the paramedics on which life-saving techniques we're up-to-date on our licensing payments.

I think it's more reasonable that doctors or health care providers or health insurance companies will be the ones that actually have to license any patents because that's where the money is. It's not like consumers need to keep a bracelet or file of all the patents they've licensed so they know which software and hardware they can buy.

Can you imagine not being able to get a cast because your hmo didn't license the patent for "applying gauze soaked in plaster to a broken or fractured limb to prevent the bone from moving while it heals"? crap.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#15

Honestly, this is probably the best possible thing. The reality is that under the Patent Act, things which are not fundamentally "inventions" -- such as software algorithms, genes, and in this case, data correlations -- can legally be granted patents. This is a problem with the Act, not with any given court's interpretation of it, and that is what needs to change. I can think of no better way to build political suppo…

I don't see this happening. Patients (in the US) don't know the cost of their care. So, when this new "patent tax" appears, it will be hidden from the consumer and silently passed down the chain (to insurers, to companies) and medical costs will continue to spiral out of control. It's unlikely to actually change the care provided -- but it's certain to make care more expensive. I wouldn't count on congress fixing it…

I don't think it's the cost he's referring to. The fact that you could personally could be treated differently because of patent law would have a profound impact on the public perception of patent law. That could help lead to real reform of the system.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#16
post #12

At this point I might just change careers. Lawyer sounds like a pretty good gig right now.

You might be interested to hear about the Ticketmaster class action settlement I learned I was a party to in my email this morning. Lawyers get $16 million, members of the class get coupons on future Ticketmaster purchases.

Not just a coupon, but a coupon for $1.50

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#17
post #12

At this point I might just change careers. Lawyer sounds like a pretty good gig right now.

You might be interested to hear about the Ticketmaster class action settlement I learned I was a party to in my email this morning. Lawyers get $16 million, members of the class get coupons on future Ticketmaster purchases.

I guess I'll have to reconsider then; the lawyers definitely got the short end of the stick. (;

More seriously, I would have no qualms of going into the legal profession specifically to defend against this sort of brand of crazy where possible. (And of course more mundane cases as the majority.)

I'd wake up each morning feeling MUCH better than if I became something like say, a firefighter.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#18

Honestly, this is probably the best possible thing. The reality is that under the Patent Act, things which are not fundamentally "inventions" -- such as software algorithms, genes, and in this case, data correlations -- can legally be granted patents. This is a problem with the Act, not with any given court's interpretation of it, and that is what needs to change. I can think of no better way to build political suppo…

I don't believe these things work the way you are assuming they do. Unjust behavior by the part of big corporations like Prometheus need to be stopped at the root and at first sight.

Please never hope that the triumph of someone over you in argument, specially one that that gives them a new weapon to fight you, will eventually and reliably become a weakness in their defenses.

I'll try to explain why I think so without using analogies, since they almost always break arguments apart. I hope that by sticking to this particular case I am not interpreted as someone trying to straightly so predict the future but as someone making a point.

Let's say that Prometheus wins this, thus having the possibility of using this case to patent medical procedures and the using of statistical correlations. You are assuming that big pharmaceuticals will use this to stop lots of doctors from rightfully saving lives using what is now standard medical procedure... but I believe big pharmaceuticals are doing just fine now, and are not stupid enough to piss off the whole US population. What I would do if I were them is to extend the validity of the patent on a drug (in the case describe in the article it is thiopurine) by using another related patent that hasn't expired yet and that covers a procedure. This won't send a substantially higher number of Bobbys to the grave, but it won't reduce the cost of each non-dying Bobby to not-die, which is what one supposes eventually happens when patents on a Bobby-death-stopping drug expires and hence the drug can be manufactured generically or by competing big pharmaceutical labs.

So, in the end they get to make more money in the long run (since patents can be made to last longer) and things don't get worse for Bobby and the people, they just don't get as better as they should.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#19
post #12

At this point I might just change careers. Lawyer sounds like a pretty good gig right now.

You might be interested to hear about the Ticketmaster class action settlement I learned I was a party to in my email this morning. Lawyers get $16 million, members of the class get coupons on future Ticketmaster purchases.

It's amazing that so many entrepreneurs seem to hate the large payments that class action lawyers are awarded.

Class action lawyers perform the same kind of high-risk high-reward gamble that startups engage in. While tech startups create value by making something useful, these lawyers create value by keeping powerful interests honest. The idea that they are unnecessary or should be capped because consumers will just "in the long run" "vote with their feet" has been shown to be (patently) false: corporations can take advantage of huge economies of scale when they breach millions of contracts in small, hidden ways. The only real recourse of an individual is to participate in a class action. Perhaps the biggest part of the individual's reward is that the corporation will stop its bad behavior.

I can understand distrust of the judicial system because it shows a bias in favor of the deep-pocketed. What I don't understand is why there's a distrust of class-action verdicts, where both parties compete on a relatively even playing field.

Re: Oblivious Supreme Court poised to legalize medical patents

#20
post #10

Honestly, this is probably the best possible thing. The reality is that under the Patent Act, things which are not fundamentally "inventions" -- such as software algorithms, genes, and in this case, data correlations -- can legally be granted patents. This is a problem with the Act, not with any given court's interpretation of it, and that is what needs to change. I can think of no better way to build political suppo…

Thank you for pointing out the primary culprit here--Congress and its lame legislation in this area. The headline's use of 'legalize' only perpetuates the confusion surrounding Supreme Court decisions. It is the underlying legislation that gives life to the patent claim not the fact that the Court upholds patents that succesfully adhere to a misguided law. Ambiguous or otherwise weak legislation leaves the court in a…

One problem is that even unambiguous legislation gets twisted by agency interpretations and case law to no longer mean what it originally said.
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