I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries • Hacker News Board

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#11

Post by whoknew1122 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

mousetree wrote: post #5

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

In what kind of startups is this happening in?! Edit: in our early days, if one of the co-founders did this, we definitely would've parted ways.

Every startup I've worked in.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#12

Post by dcow » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

si1entstill wrote: post #9

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

I this true? Wouldn't the IRS have something to say about apartments being classified as a business expense when it is used as housing in addition to "office space?"

Rent may be the only thing the salary goes towards.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#13

Post by ghiculescu » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

I think this study should ask founders their age. It has a huge impact, probably more than any factor they did ask.

I started my first startup at 20. We were bootstrapped, so we started at $0 salaries, and didn’t pay ourselves more than 1k/month for a few years. We all lived together somewhere cheap to keep rent low.

Now I have a family and stuff… it would be very hard to go back to living like that. So the range of salary options practically available to me is totally different, regardless of where (in the US) I live, how much I raise, etc.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#14

Post by kleiba » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

Salaries by Geography - it's a shame that this is US-centric, I would be very curious about the median/average salaries of European founders.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#15

Post by ghiculescu » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

yrgulation wrote: post #3

Now do dividends and other perks.

In a young startup, that’s easy: no dividends and no perks.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#16

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

> think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year

This is tax fraud. More realistic: cell phone bills, car expenses and home internet.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#17

Post by paxys » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

That's...not how it works. You can expense cell phone bills and lunches, sure, but VCs aren't paying for your fancy apartment.

> EDIT: I'm not a tax person

Most non-tech discussions on forums like this one should start and end with this disclaimer. Watching people here regularly talk about topics like law, "money laundering", write-offs and tax shelters is as hilarious and disconnected from reality as a hacking scene from CSI.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#18

Post by ericghildyal » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

mousetree wrote: post #5

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

In what kind of startups is this happening in?! Edit: in our early days, if one of the co-founders did this, we definitely would've parted ways.

Agree completely here! When we were getting everything up and running, we were making decisions about which SaaS platforms were worth our money. Having the company pay for something personally never once crossed my mind.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#19

Post by agrippanux » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

One thing that can fly under the radar is when a founder uses their personal credit card for things like social media ad spend, and then gets reimbursed by the company. It's a very easy way to rack up tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on a credit card which equals tons of points for things like travel, electronics purchases, gift cards, etc.

Re: I surveyed 500 startup founders about their salaries

#20

Post by tensor » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #4

I think what people often blissfully miss about founder comp is that the business literally supports the founder's entire life. Everything is a business expense. Pay yourself 50k as a little bonus and run almost everything through the business, because if you don't survive, neither does the business. You think founders are paying out of pocket for their fancy SF and NYC apartments at 50k per year living humbly? Think…

Yeah no, this is bullshit and won't pass tax inspection. I founded and exited a company and yes I did live humbly until we actually managed a significant raise. Even then I still took a low salary. I only expensed things that were actually company related.