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Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

theintercept.com

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Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#11

Post by jimlongton »

labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Police have already used a bomb disposal robot to kill a person [1] in the US.

The conversation they had shows slippery slope in action:

> After a brief silence, Commissioner Jesse Hsieh asked the next question: “Does the department plan on using a live round in the robot PAN disruptor?”

> The answer was immediately provocative. “No,” Daza-Quiroz said, before quickly pivoting to hypothetical scenarios in which, yes, just such a shotgun-armed robot might be useful to police.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bo...

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#12

Post by jimlongton »

bastawhiz wrote: post #5
labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

I largely agree, but the explosive charge can be a shotgun blank. Which also means it can be substituted for a normal shotgun shell. And the police can use this pretty much at their discretion. How long will it take for this to be misused?

They already did in 2016. [1]

They lied to the shooter, who they had cornered, and told him the robot was delivering a phone. In fact it was a bomb.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bo...

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#13

Post by pizza234 »

samfbiddle wrote: post #10
labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

I've read the article, but it doesn't define what exactly a robot is.

The problem is that one can mistake the term for machines with some form of autonomy, while, based on my understanding, they're "just" remotely controlled ones.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#14

Post by MichaelZuo »

samfbiddle wrote: post #10
labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

> in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances.

Where is this suggested by the Oakland PD?

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#15

Post by samfbiddle »

pizza234 wrote: post #13
samfbiddle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

I've read the article, but it doesn't define what exactly a robot is. The problem is that one can mistake the term for machines with some form of autonomy, while, based on my understanding, they're "just" remotely controlled ones.

I both named the exact model of the robot (Northrop Grumman Remotec Andros Mark 5-A1) and specify that it's operated via remote control.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#16

Post by labrador »

samfbiddle wrote: post #10
labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

Hi Sam Biddle, I think it is common knowledge that writers don't choose their titles, editors do, so I wasn't criticizing your article, I was criticizing the title.

These devices are not robots. They are remote control devices operated by humans.

Oxford: robot, a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer.

Robots act autonomously and automatically. The hypothetical case where we might give such an autonomous device lethal capabilities is an ongoing discussion. Most people agree that could be a very bad idea.

But a human controlled device? I don't see the problem.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#17

Post by samfbiddle »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #14
samfbiddle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

> in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. Where is this suggested by the Oakland PD?

It wasn't suggested, it was explicitly stated in the meetings and in the proposed authorized use language, both of which you will conveniently find quoted in the article.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#18

Post by rolph »

labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

they are already armed with a functional shotgun and a hand waved at it.

you can put any 12ga. cartridge in it, and that means a lot of things.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#19

Post by RHSeeger »

jimlongton wrote: post #11
labrador wrote: post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Police have already used a bomb disposal robot to kill a person [1] in the US. The conversation they had shows slippery slope in action: > After a brief silence, Commissioner Jesse Hsieh asked the next question: “Does the department plan on using a live round in the robot PAN disruptor?” > The answer was immediately provocative. “No,” Daza-Quiroz said, before quickly pivoting to hypothetical scenarios in which, yes,…

As has been shown again and again, what they plan on "now" is irrelevant. What matters is what they (or their successors) can do with it later.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#20

Post by blacksmith_tb »

rolph wrote: post #2

if you are going to use any weapon, you need to be ready to have it taken from you or copied and, used against you

Well, I am sure that a drug cartel that can produce submarines[1] or drones[2] could manage an RC shotgun bot, but I am skeptical that you'd see them being used widely, compared to just handing a gun to someone?

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine

2: https://news.yahoo.com/drug-cartels-attack-enemies-spread-17...

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