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What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
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Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#12Why does debouncing increase latency? Can’t they report the keypress immediately on the first signal spike, and then use the debounce timer to ensure that no additional presses are reported within the debounce interval? Or are switches generating spurious signal spikes even when left untouched? That would explain why they need to delay the keypress…
They can, and article is just bad, as it completely ignores that and the fact you can use diodes to remove ghosting.
I've been typing for a long time, and I think I type pretty quickly. I've never felt that my keyboard is slower than my typing. At least not since ZX-81 days.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#13The best optical linear switches in 2022 have a response time of 0.2 ms. I think we hit the point of rapidly diminishing returns long ago.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#14Mechanical keyboards almost universally have diodes that make a matrix never exhibit ghosting, so this article is straight wrong there. The exception is Model M keyboards, which actually use a membrane instead of a PCB.
Actually, no keyboard exhibits "ghost keys" — phantom key presses.
The difference between methods of "anti-ghost"ing is whether ghost keys are avoided completely (e.g. using diodes), avoided for some key combinations (e.g. "gaming optimised matrix") or just suppressed (detected and blocked).
99.9% of mechanical keyboards made in the last decade avoid ghost keys by using diodes, yes, primarily because they have been intended for gaming.
However, diodes are not at all universal in mechanical office keyboards, even if they use discrete switches and a PCB. If you'd look at vintage mechanical keyboards, you'll find that while many have them, many don't. Cherry even still makes some older models with Cherry MX switches and 2-key rollover.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#15Mechanical keyboards almost universally have diodes that make a matrix never exhibit ghosting, so this article is straight wrong there. The exception is Model M keyboards, which actually use a membrane instead of a PCB.
> Mechanical keyboards almost universally
You’re going to have to be more precise than this. Most “mechanical” keyboards from the 80s–90s do not (the Model M is not at all exceptional in this sense). I would guess most of the more recent ones (marketed to ordinary typists) don’t either.
For enthusiast-/gamer-targeted keyboards from the past few years you could be right.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#16Mechanical keyboards almost universally have diodes that make a matrix never exhibit ghosting, so this article is straight wrong there. The exception is Model M keyboards, which actually use a membrane instead of a PCB.
> Mechanical keyboards almost universally You’re going to have to be more precise than this. Most “mechanical” keyboards from the 80s–90s do not (the Model M is not at all exceptional in this sense). I would guess most of the more recent ones (marketed to ordinary typists) don’t either. For enthusiast-/gamer-targeted keyboards from the past few years you could be right.
Surely 30 year old keyboards constitute a tiny niche of extant keyboards.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Mechanical keyboards almost universally You’re going to have to be more precise than this. Most “mechanical” keyboards from the 80s–90s do not (the Model M is not at all exceptional in this sense). I would guess most of the more recent ones (marketed to ordinary typists) don’t either. For enthusiast-/gamer-targeted keyboards from the past few years you could be right.
Surely 30 year old keyboards constitute a tiny niche of extant keyboards.
The majority of extant keyboards at this point are probably laptop keyboards, followed by cheap rubber membrane boards. “Mechanical” keyboards are a small niche. I would guess desktop mechanical keyboards for commercial/office use are probably still bigger than the consumer market, but I’m not really sure.
I don’t have any data about the number of keyboards still in active use / still in working order, but the number of mechanical keyboards produced 2–3 decades ago was probably an order of magnitude larger than the number produced today. And while most have been scrapped by now, keyboards are pretty durable.
The past few years has seen significant growth in the number of people buying mechanical keyboards though, so you could be right that new devices make the majority.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#18Does it matter if you're not gaming? I just type without looking; my eyes rest on the screen but I don't read it while typing, and even frequently have my eyes closed.
I can imagine how this matters to gamers -- just asking about the "normal" use of the keyboard.
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#19Same topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399883 "Keyboard Latency (2017) (danluu.com)"
Re: What influences keyboard input speed (2018)
#20I don't get the multiplexer vs matrix argument. Wouldn't multiplexers add their own problems? You need to wait for the output to become stable when you change the input select. I'm guessing as part of the scanning, they are changing the SEL of the muxes and then waiting? The article seems to gloss over that completely. I would have thought they'd be super cheap anyway, if you're looking at $200 keyboards, spending a…
> You need to wait for the output to become stable when you change the input select.
The switching time of multiplexers is on the scale of 100 nanoseconds, so it's negligible (assuming there's no extra RC components behind the multiplexer to lengthen its settling time further, a reasonable assumption for pure software denouncing).