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Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

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Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#11

Post by arthurcolle »

scarface74 wrote: post #10
gigel82 wrote: post #4

> Microsoft tracked down the bug and added specific code to Windows 95 that looks for SimCity. If it finds SimCity running, it runs the memory allocator in a special mode that doesn’t free memory right away. That’s the kind of obsession with backward compatibility that made people willing to upgrade to Windows 95. Impressive; now, if only we could trick them into considering "privacy" a core feature and add "backward…

Why is this “impressive”. Microsoft made money by selling Windows. If Windows got the reputation for being incompatible with popular software, people wouldn’t have bought Windows

It's cool when people make an effort and help the community of users.

Doesn't matter if they are Microsoft PMs that got this prioritized or nerdy gamers that originally surfaced this issue, or sympathetic programmers that created the "fix" in this form (hey lets just change the default behavior of the memory allocator/de-allocator/whatever)

I'm sure this straight up would not happen at Apple, today, for example. Challenge for the audience to surface counterexamples!

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#12

Post by scarface74 »

arthurcolle wrote: post #11
scarface74 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this “impressive”. Microsoft made money by selling Windows. If Windows got the reputation for being incompatible with popular software, people wouldn’t have bought Windows

It's cool when people make an effort and help the community of users. Doesn't matter if they are Microsoft PMs that got this prioritized or nerdy gamers that originally surfaced this issue, or sympathetic programmers that created the "fix" in this form (hey lets just change the default behavior of the memory allocator/de-allocator/whatever) I'm sure this straight up would not happen at Apple, today, for example. Chal…

They aren’t doing it altruistically, they are doing it to help their bottom line.

But Microsoft worshipping at the alter of backwards compatibility has caused them to move at a glacial pace compared to Apple.

Apple not worshipping at the same alter allowed it to remove 32 bit support from the OS and actual processor which meant:

- duplicate versions of shared libraries weren’t taking up RAM or storage which were both at a premium on mobile devices that have operating systems that don’t support swap

- allowed then to have faster, smaller, more energy efficient processors that allowed them to ship phones where their cheapest phones are still two years ahead in terms of performance than competitors most expensive phones

- the same thing above means that MacBooks can have 20 hours of battery life, don’t sound like a 747 when you open 4 Chrome tabs and don’t run hot.

Microsoft completely missed mobile and their ARM laptops are so crappy that it’s faster to run x86 Windows apps running the ARM version of Windows in a VM on a Mac than running on one of the few ARM Windows computers.

All engineering choices have trade offs. Because of backwards compatibility, there are almost a dozen ways to represent a string in C depending on which API you call

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/text/how-to-convert-be...

This by itself has caused security issues over the years.

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#13

Post by [deleted] »

stavros wrote: post #9
gipp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a daily user of HN for near a decade and this is news to me

Oh man, I wish I had links to some article about how much effort some MS engineer went to to get old versions of things like Quicken working. It was a good read, you'd like it, if someone else knows the one and can link.

[deleted]

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#14

Post by rendx »

stavros wrote: post #9
gipp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a daily user of HN for near a decade and this is news to me

Oh man, I wish I had links to some article about how much effort some MS engineer went to to get old versions of things like Quicken working. It was a good read, you'd like it, if someone else knows the one and can link.

Most of these stories came in the form of blog posts by Raymond Chen in his blog The Old New Thing. It used to be even more fun to read in its old form and layout, and I am fairly sure not all his posts survived the move to the modern "devblogs" platform. But many of his posts were published as a book by the same name. Highly recommended, and a great gift!

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/

https://www.amazon.com/Old-New-Thing-Development-Throughout/...

Fairly widely read also by Joel on this topic: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... (not the article cited on Twitter; links to Chen's posts sadly broken)

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#15

Post by rasz »

>"Jon Ross, who wrote the original version of SimCity for Windows 3.x

Ross wrote Sim City 2000 https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,7...

The story is indeed about Sim City 2000. Funnily enough this bug is also present in DOS version of the game. Dude who hacked together "DOS32AWE - DOS/4G compatible DOS Extender with Sound Blaster AWEUTIL MIDI synthesizer support for Protected mode,VIASB" https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=83065 rediscovered this independently.

It also manifests when trying to run Sim City 2000 using DOS32A instead of DOS/4GW https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=24929

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#16

Post by hypertele-Xii »

scarface74 wrote: post #10
gigel82 wrote: post #4

> Microsoft tracked down the bug and added specific code to Windows 95 that looks for SimCity. If it finds SimCity running, it runs the memory allocator in a special mode that doesn’t free memory right away. That’s the kind of obsession with backward compatibility that made people willing to upgrade to Windows 95. Impressive; now, if only we could trick them into considering "privacy" a core feature and add "backward…

Why is this “impressive”. Microsoft made money by selling Windows. If Windows got the reputation for being incompatible with popular software, people wouldn’t have bought Windows

There are different ways to make money, some more impressive than others. Compare e.g. painting a painting and selling it, vs mugging an old lady in the street.

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#17

Post by scarface74 »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #16
scarface74 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this “impressive”. Microsoft made money by selling Windows. If Windows got the reputation for being incompatible with popular software, people wouldn’t have bought Windows

There are different ways to make money, some more impressive than others. Compare e.g. painting a painting and selling it, vs mugging an old lady in the street.

So you’re comparing Apple being able to ship phones that are three years ahead of the competition in terms of speed and laptops that are quieter, faster, with 3x the battery life, and don’t get hot enough to brew coffee to a mugging?

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#18

Post by hypertele-Xii »

scarface74 wrote: post #17
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different ways to make money, some more impressive than others. Compare e.g. painting a painting and selling it, vs mugging an old lady in the street.

So you’re comparing Apple being able to ship phones that are three years ahead of the competition in terms of speed and laptops that are quieter, faster, with 3x the battery life, and don’t get hot enough to brew coffee to a mugging?

No I'm comparing past Microsoft to present Microsoft. Backwards compatibility was a more impressive way to make money than... whatever it is Microsoft is doing these days.

The only reason I "upgraded" my Windows last time was exactly because Microsoft broke compatibility (some new app required the latest version of whatever library that wasn't backported).

Re: Windows 95 had dedicated code to run Sim City

#19

Post by 57FkMytWjyFu »

smilekzs wrote: post #5
57FkMytWjyFu wrote: post #2

Now they tear out features to break Sim City. https://answers.ea.com/t5/Other-SimCity-Games/SimCity-4-Wind...

This is more like eliminating outdated unsafe DRM. As a commenter over there suggested, you could always use "a modified executable from the Internet".

I'm struggling to see what is safer about a modded exe.

I'm similarly struggling to see the value in breaking old games because new versions exist.

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