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Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

penntoday.upenn.edu

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Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#11

Post by Maursault »

arnidg wrote: post #7
dev_throw wrote: post #3

Sounds like advanced symbiosis. I wonder if the movement is across a gradient or whether the super organism has a control unit that makes decisions. Are we a result of similar microorganisms?

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

> In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproduction, and that always puts a limit to how close the cooperation can be (nothing close to forming multicellular life)

Mitochondria is its own organism, has its own DNA that is separate and distinct from nuclear DNA. It has been very successful through very close cooperation.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiogenesis

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#12

Post by [deleted] »

numlocked wrote: post #8
mustafabisic1 wrote: post #2

My childhood explained. Trying to do exactly this for my kids: "Because these assemblages are found in saliva, targeting them early on could be a therapeutic strategy to prevent childhood tooth decay, says Koo. “If you block this binding or disrupt the assemblage before it arrives on the tooth and causes damage, that could be a preventive strategy.”"

How? Do you just mean by good oral care practices from an early age? Or something more off the beaten path?

[deleted]

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#13

Post by ta988 »

arnidg wrote: post #7
dev_throw wrote: post #3

Sounds like advanced symbiosis. I wonder if the movement is across a gradient or whether the super organism has a control unit that makes decisions. Are we a result of similar microorganisms?

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

They are not. Trees are notorious to have variations across their branches.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#14

Post by dweinus »

arnidg wrote: post #7
dev_throw wrote: post #3

Sounds like advanced symbiosis. I wonder if the movement is across a gradient or whether the super organism has a control unit that makes decisions. Are we a result of similar microorganisms?

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

If you were to pull a random cell from your body, there's a 90% chance it doesn't contain human DNA: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-...

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#15

Post by EamonnMR »

numlocked wrote: post #8
mustafabisic1 wrote: post #2

My childhood explained. Trying to do exactly this for my kids: "Because these assemblages are found in saliva, targeting them early on could be a therapeutic strategy to prevent childhood tooth decay, says Koo. “If you block this binding or disrupt the assemblage before it arrives on the tooth and causes damage, that could be a preventive strategy.”"

How? Do you just mean by good oral care practices from an early age? Or something more off the beaten path?

I assume they mean figuring out what mechanism they're using to bind and attacking it to prevent formation.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#16

Post by semperdark »

Maursault wrote: post #11
arnidg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

> In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproduction, and that always puts a limit to how close the cooperation can be (nothing close to forming multicellular life) Mitochondria is its own organism, has its own DNA that is separate and distinct from nuclear DNA. It has been very successful through very close cooperation.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiogenesis

True, though largely limited to DNA necessary for its functions. I don’t have a citation on me (mobile) but there’s evidence that more “generic” mitochondrial DNA was integrated into the nuclear DNA, and that this is also the case for other endosymbionts.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#17

Post by Maursault »

semperdark wrote: post #16
Maursault wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproduction, and that always puts a limit to how close the cooperation can be (nothing close to forming multicellular life) Mitochondria is its own organism, has its own DNA that is separate and distinct from nuclear DNA. It has been very successful through very close cooperation.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiogenesis

True, though largely limited to DNA necessary for its functions. I don’t have a citation on me (mobile) but there’s evidence that more “generic” mitochondrial DNA was integrated into the nuclear DNA, and that this is also the case for other endosymbionts.

> and that this is also the case for other endosymbionts.

such as chloroplasts.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#19

Post by outworlder »

arnidg wrote: post #7
dev_throw wrote: post #3

Sounds like advanced symbiosis. I wonder if the movement is across a gradient or whether the super organism has a control unit that makes decisions. Are we a result of similar microorganisms?

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

> A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism.

Not necessarily. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29#Humans

Our cells DNA also drift over time due to localized mutations. What matters is that they should keep obeying all the chemical signalling.

> Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart.

When that happens in complex multicellular organisms, it's usually called "cancer".

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#20

Post by fbdab103 »

Years ago, I recall reading about a putative Cavity Vaccine which was a bateriophage which targeted the tiny fraction of species present in the mouth responsible for tooth decay. Supposedly, a one time inoculation would confer lifelong protection.

It has been decades and I have not heard anything more about this. Big Dentist keeping the research down or was there some "in mice" kind of gotcha which limited the treatment?

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