Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 83 posts

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#11

Post by indemnity »

user_named wrote: post #6
parker_mountain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't agree with OP, but the Chinese government is way more involved with its companies than the US is. Here, ostensibly, there's a court and legal process - versus China, where the government has all data by default. So, any Chinese tech company is de facto going to have all of its data accessible by the Chinese government, by default.

It's interesting to see you make these claims when you know nothing about the workings of the legal system in China.

What legal system?

The legal system in China is whatever the party wants it to be.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#12

Post by AlexandrB »

ravenstine wrote: post #8
AlexandrB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

No one said they aren't . Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? China being an adversary should have nothing to do with it? If we can't point out such a…

I think all of these apps behave deplorably. But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. The solutions offered also often target TikTok specifically - like banning TikTok in the US, or placing some kind of restrictions on how TikTok can operate.

Why is the solution not to make broad data collection illegal?

Edit:

> So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States?

Not at all - those things are genuinely awful, but one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today. This isn't something that happened in the past. I think the comparison is quite valid.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#13

Post by masterof0 »

ravenstine wrote: post #8
AlexandrB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

No one said they aren't . Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? China being an adversary should have nothing to do with it? If we can't point out such a…

I don't like companies which business model is spying on people , regardless who their master is. To answer your question(if you really want an answer) , is, hypocrisy, many people have a problem with Alice pointing out that Bob did X thing, when Alice in the first place have also done said X thing. Not justifying anything, or anyone whatsoever, just telling raven how some people might think.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#15

Post by dnissley »

AlexandrB wrote: post #4
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #2

It’s not supposed to make money, it’s a spy tool subsidized by a foreign adversary…

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

The answer is simple: In the US it's a scandal if the government has open access without a warrant to private citizen data held by companies. In China that's just considered business as usual.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#16

Post by tehjoker »

indemnity wrote: post #11
user_named wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see you make these claims when you know nothing about the workings of the legal system in China.

What legal system? The legal system in China is whatever the party wants it to be.

it's funny you raise that point right after the abortion decision here

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#17

Post by the_optimist »

AlexandrB wrote: post #4
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #2

It’s not supposed to make money, it’s a spy tool subsidized by a foreign adversary…

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

It is an espionage organization because it is controlled by an adversarial group which collects and stores detailed individual data. The CIA, NSA, and Google hold the same character.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#18

Post by AlexandrB »

dnissley wrote: post #15
AlexandrB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

The answer is simple: In the US it's a scandal if the government has open access without a warrant to private citizen data held by companies. In China that's just considered business as usual.

I think this is a common response. But even though the Snowden revelations were a "scandal", nothing bad really happened to the perpetrators. And the FISA court that rubber-stamped the data collection is still operating and still rubber-stamping government surveillance. So, how is it not business as usual in the US? Consider also how law enforcement now has warrantless access to individuals' location data thanks to data brokers and pervasive location tracking in apps[1].

I would really like to see people in North America demand better from their leaders instead of patting ourselves on the back about how at least we're better than China.

[1] https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/09/tool-gives-polic...

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#19

Post by ChemSpider »

AlexandrB wrote: post #12
ravenstine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said they aren't . Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? China being an adversary should have nothing to do with it? If we can't point out such a…

I think all of these apps behave deplorably. But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. The solutions offered also often target TikTok specifically - like banning TikTok in the US, or placing some kind of restrictions on how TikTok can operate. Why is the solution not to make broad data collection illegal? Edit: > So should no one speak out against conc…

Based on published information, Tiktok is behaving significantly worse than any other major player in this market.

Just one example: There are no reports of Meta (etc) logging my keystrokes and data OUTSIDE of what I enter into the app/website.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049774

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#20

Post by pb7 »

nextstep wrote: post #3
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #2

It’s not supposed to make money, it’s a spy tool subsidized by a foreign adversary…

Can you explain how this is a spy tool and how Youtube, Instagram, Facebook, etc. are not? I haven't really used TikTok. How does it collect data beyond the videos I've watched?

One is controlled by an authoritarian government, the others are private (publicly traded) corporations in a democratic country.
Post reply on HN