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The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

acesounderglass.com

11–20 of 37 posts

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#11
Annoying as it may be, this situation is somewhat ubiquitous in the history of human knowledge.

Transistors were invented by Lilienfeld, yet everyone knows about the work of Bardeen et al. at Bell Labs. Einstein in relativity is the Balto of Lorentz-Poincare, which is why his Nobel prize mentioned the photoelectric effect and not relativity.

Simple formulas of scientific credit tend to stick better; the path of scientific progress is usually anything but. This is ok. The main thing is the knowledge itself, not who came up with it after all.

And yet it is very frustrating!

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#12
post #3

In the interest of pedantry, wasn't Balto made by Amblin Entertainment, not Disney?

So confused, did the author watch a different movie maybe?

> Disney later made a movie about him that makes no mention of Balto for the first 90%

The character appears at the 5 minute mark!

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#13
post #9

I've been thinking about something similar. Maybe somebody can shoot it down. For many achievements, most credit belongs to the role, not the person. In other words, the counterfactual of "if we didn't all agree that somebody will do this" would better prevent the achievement than "if one specific person didn't have their talent." We have phrases like "the time is ripe" because we know this. When conditions are in pl…

I agree with you about all of this, but I have one problem:

Does this mean no more awards? Like, will the Nobel prize always go "to the institution" that made the discovery? Should biographies be titled POTUS: Period X-Y?

You see what I mean? Part of why we attach credit to people, is because people are inherently interesting. Institutions are inherently boring, and supposed to be. Storytelling is maybe not as important as the actual achievement, but it's not nothing either. No child will ever want to grow up to be a nameless crank of the system.

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#14

Cool name for the concept, and I think making it about dogs helps take the political angle out of it. I think of this in terms of the 'great man' theory of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory And feel that it's obvious that science works the same way, and we should focus on the "science from below" a lot more than we do. Charles Fort talked about "Steam Engine Time" and it gets referenced in Discw…

For science specifically, the distinction is also known as the Newton vs. Ortega hypothesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortega_hypothesis

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#15
post #9

I've been thinking about something similar. Maybe somebody can shoot it down. For many achievements, most credit belongs to the role, not the person. In other words, the counterfactual of "if we didn't all agree that somebody will do this" would better prevent the achievement than "if one specific person didn't have their talent." We have phrases like "the time is ripe" because we know this. When conditions are in pl…

I generally agree but one of your examples is in fact a counter-example -- the president and particular congress people tend to matter, as lawmaking is rarely the average of voter preferences. Does a median replacement president to Obama pass healthcare? Does a median LBJ manage to wheel and deal the Civil Rights Act? A Trump that just wanted to pass agendas instead of infighting would've done 5x more for republican priorities.

Certainly those people worked with a groundswell, but it took their extreme individual interests (or lack thereof) to determine those big outcomes.

I think this is generally true across congress too -- stuff that just happens to have a powerful champion goes far, other equally popular issues languish. My wife works in hospice policy and the selection of members who just happen to have had a good (or bad!) experience with a family member in hospice really changes which bills happen.

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#16

Annoying as it may be, this situation is somewhat ubiquitous in the history of human knowledge. Transistors were invented by Lilienfeld, yet everyone knows about the work of Bardeen et al. at Bell Labs. Einstein in relativity is the Balto of Lorentz-Poincare, which is why his Nobel prize mentioned the photoelectric effect and not relativity. Simple formulas of scientific credit tend to stick better; the path of scien…

> Einstein in relativity is the Balto of Lorentz-Poincare, which is why his Nobel prize mentioned the photoelectric effect and not relativity.

That doesn’t add up because there was no Nobel prize at all for relativity to anyone. Searching online the consensus seems to be a mix of things:

* general confusion that his photoelectric Nobel was for relativity.

* the experimental proof of relativity came at a time when anti-semitism was on the rise and so there was enough of a fig leaf of “there’s disagreement / dispute of it being proven”.

* Einstein didn’t attend the ceremony because of a prescheduled lecture tour in Japan (But also possibly because of a fear for personal safety as his name was on a hit list by the perpetrators of a successful assassination). This made it seem like he snubbed the prize committee (which maybe he also did because he probably should have had 3 Nobels for all his contributions and felt like that prize wasn’t handed out on merit).

Certainly by 1945 special relativity was proven as otherwise there wouldn’t be an atomic bomb and yet still no Nobel for anyone.

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#17
post #14

Cool name for the concept, and I think making it about dogs helps take the political angle out of it. I think of this in terms of the 'great man' theory of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory And feel that it's obvious that science works the same way, and we should focus on the "science from below" a lot more than we do. Charles Fort talked about "Steam Engine Time" and it gets referenced in Discw…

For science specifically, the distinction is also known as the Newton vs. Ortega hypothesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortega_hypothesis

I think the Newton - Ortega distinction is slightly different. Maybe it coincides with the Balto-Togo metaphor to some extent, but I think part of why the Balto-Togo metaphor resonates with people here is because it recognizes the role of the citers as well as the cited.

Your mention of the Newton-Ortega distinction is the first I've heard of it by those names, so I'm not entirely familiar with its scope, but in reading the Wikipedia entry it seems to assume the contributions of the scientists in question are somehow known, and it's a matter of "does science progress with lots of little contributions or a few big contributions?"

You can turn this on its head though, and suggest that "contribution" really means "discussion in the literature" which is a property of the citers and not the cited. So, if say, a Newton comes along and has a brilliant discovery, but no one understands it or it goes into the wrong outlet and isn't read, then there will be no impact. Conversely, though, if something comes along and there's a rush of recognition of a concept, and someone publishes it first, is that because this "big innovation" was associated with that first publisher, or because the readers all had the same collective idea, and they're just citing the first to goal?

The issue is that scientific development is not actually a property of the discoverer -- the discovery is necessary but not sufficient -- and the "size" of a discovery and who makes that discovery aren't really the same thing either.

I think that e.g., (1) finding that science progresses in big leaps rather than small steps, and that (2) there is a "first post" phenomenon doesn't mean that the big leaps are necessarily due to the first poster.

My personal experience is that all of this bibliometric research is a little distorted because so much rapid change in process has happened even in the last 20 years, and much of what actually happens in science and scientific credit is much more complex than bibliometric models allow. It's difficult to study big versus small contributions accurately when political maneuvering and social dynamics is such a big part of what happens.

It's interesting to think about, in any event.

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#18
This part seemed a little more significant than maybe the author recognized:

"Jasen would go so far as to argue that shining a beacon in unknown territory that inspires explorers to look for treasure in the right place makes you the Togo, racing through fractured ice rapids social ridicule and self-doubt to do the real work of getting an idea considered at all."

It was in the discussion of Wegener, which muddies the waters a bit, but that "explorer" role leads to a lot of selection bias in science. That is, that "social ridicule" can be extended pretty far to "career ends" or "ostracism" so you end up in a situation where it's not just that people doing that work get less credit, it's that they might be driven out even when they were on the right path.

There's lots of examples of this with the pandemic. E.g.:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-c...

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#19
post #6

> I was pretty sure Alfred Wegener (...) is a Balto. > Jasen would go so far as to argue that [some difficult achievements] makes [Wegener] the Togo The more apt conclusion from the article is probably that the Balto/Togo theory simply isn't as good a model for the scientific discovery process as the author was hoping.

I think you have to read it more as a story than a theory, and also that the conclusion is more subtle.

My takeway is not that Togo is a better choice for the hero than Balto, it's that there is no correct choice. Balto, Togo, and a lot of other dogs were part of a group effort. Balto became the mascot. But humans need a simple story, so they confuse a mascot with a hero.

America is named like that because someone named Amerigo claimed columbus was wrong in thinking he was in India. People had to name it something, so they shortened 'Amerigo's continent' to America. Was he worthy to name a whole continent? Probably not, but still he has a continent named after him.

Re: The Balto/Togo theory of scientific development

#20
This reminds me of the "second mover advantage". Time after time, it seems that the first company that comes up with a new idea and/or does the most to educate people about it will not be the same one to benefit most from it. Either bigger companies crush them (sometimes followed by showing up first at the resulting fire sale) or other companies of any size lap them by taking advantage of the related second-system effect. Since transistors have already been mentioned, both Shockley/Fairchild and Fairchild/Intel could be considered examples. Others could cite Edison copying ideas from any of Tesla, Swan, or Volta. The Wright Brothers could be put on either side of the equation, at different times.

Also, this:

> One difficulty is it’s hard to distinguish “ahead of their time beacon shining” from “lucky idiot”

The world is full of lucky idiots who are continually attaching themselves to one "contrarian" idea after another, in hopes that they can claim primacy after somebody else does the hard work of developing or popularizing it. No shortage of them here, for example. It's a gamble, betting that others will ignore or forget the more numerous (and sometimes even harmful) misses accumulated in the process. The world could do with a lot less of that, TBH. There are already more credible theories than people with the knowledge and patience to explore them properly.

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