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Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

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11–20 of 339 posts

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How aren't they impartial? They are obviously an interested party, but do they have an incentive to skew the facts? If so in which direction? Not doubting you, just genuinely interested.

Magnus owns a decent stake in them (20% maybe?) and has been very publicly making accusations as well.

Their deal with Magnus hasn’t closed, but yes, they are purchasing his company.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#12

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

I don't know how market leading chess cheating software works, but it's not that hard to imagine that it just captures the screen, or scrapes the moves in any number of ways automatically is it? I'm sure it's not needed to manually type in all the moves.

As to how he'd cheat over the board, that's the big question. There are a couple of theories floating around, some more realistic than others, but if we knew for sure than this whole debacle would already be over.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#13

It's important to note that the investigation was conducted by chess.com, which is hardly an impartial authority in the matter.

How aren't they impartial? They are obviously an interested party, but do they have an incentive to skew the facts? If so in which direction? Not doubting you, just genuinely interested.

As mentioned in the article they are in talks to buy Magnus's app Play Magnus.

That being said, if they have literal screenshots of the discussions between Niemann and chess.com admitting to cheating and appealing the ban, those seem like smoking guns in addition to all this other analysis

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How aren't they impartial? They are obviously an interested party, but do they have an incentive to skew the facts? If so in which direction? Not doubting you, just genuinely interested.

Magnus owns a decent stake in them (20% maybe?) and has been very publicly making accusations as well.

Oh, I didn't know that chess.com wanted to buy chess24. That does make it more difficult.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#15
I believe the critical aspect here is not the specific cheating that chess.com found, but that this appears to contain written statements by Niemann himself which contradict his public statement.

And if it now turns out that he lied in his confession, too, then that's a really bad look w.r.t. his trustworthiness.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#16

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

3+2 is a lot of time to input the moves several times over and prepare coffee in the meantime. Seriously, it's not a slightest problem for a competent online blitz player.

OTB cheating: there are many possible ways. The simplest one being having a script reading the moves from the live broadcast and feeding them to an engine and then sending the info to the player. Hans' strength magically decreased in the Sinquefield cup once broadcast delay was introduced for example.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#17

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

I don't know how market leading chess cheating software works, but it's not that hard to imagine that it just captures the screen, or scrapes the moves in any number of ways automatically is it? I'm sure it's not needed to manually type in all the moves. As to how he'd cheat over the board, that's the big question. There are a couple of theories floating around, some more realistic than others, but if we knew for sur…

Anyway his over the board results are more or less consistent with his online results, so either he has invented some cheating method that had evaded detection for many years at top level events, or that he is really good on his own.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#19
The next 'move' for cheaters is to use chess computers in a way that passes 'Chess Turing Test' and makes cheating indistinguishable from normal human play under analysis.

When there is money in the game, there is incentive to cheat.

> The report says dozens of grandmasters have been caught cheating on the website, including four of the top-100 players in the world who confessed.

There are probably smart cheaters already playing who are able to evade detection.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#20
Interesting piece. It highlights how it's hard to differentiate between someone genuinely playing at a level higher, and a cheater. A few things I noted from this article:

1. The driving force behind the original accusations is that Magnus felt his opponent wasn't "exerting" himself enough, compared to other young prodigies.

2. Chess.com's case is that his results are "statistically extraordinary."

3. There is a history of cheating

4. Allegations that he admitted cheating privately (though it's not clear to whom)

1, 2, and 3 could easily be cause for suspicion; however, that's not the same as evidence. The one crucial piece absent from this article is any suggestion of how he cheated.

Without providing a means, I find this piece premature and questionable. That said, I don't know anything about chess, lot alone cheating at the master level. So maybe the "how" is common sense and not difficult?

And of course, there's also this:

> The report also addresses the relationship during the saga between Carlsen and Chess.com, which is buying Carlsen’s “Play Magnus” app for nearly $83 million.

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