How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck • Hacker News Board

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#11

Post by ssharp » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:10 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #4

After seeing what happens when you partner with an "ideas guy", the only way I will have a non-technical co-founder is if they can offer me: connections in my industry or cash. Otherwise, I don't need them and I can do the rest myself.

I don't think such a dismissive attitude is positive. Looking at individual people with an open and objective mind is appropriate when doing important business with anyone.

I'm sure there are lots of "ideas guys" who offer nothing but fuzzy and poorly reasoned concepts. There are also "ideas guys" who have expertise in concepts and customers who will think of things you've never thought of. A previous commentator mentioned that if you're looking to start an web analytics company, you might find someone with expertise in that area. Not only will they help you make customers, they'll give you a much better understanding of the market and what white spaces and other opportunities may exist in the market.

In the end, you simply need to understand the value of any founder you bring in. If a non-technical founder can provide better value than a technical co-founder, being afraid of hiring an "ideas guy" is not ideal. You simply need to find the right one.

There are lots of outstanding founders/CEO's who either come from no technical background, or a technical background that pales in comparison to a really great engineer.

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#12

Post by leak » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:20 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #6

I've been dealing with the flip side: I'm a highly technical MBA, started as a coder and got my MBA because I knew I needed it. I'd love to find serious minded technical co-founders, or even moderately experienced non-technical co-founders. I had good technical co-founders originally, but not good enough in that they drifted off when the startup took longer then they they wanted. Today, I'd love to find a strong tech…

This is good stuff. I don't need an office but good energy is a must. I'm stopping by next week!

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#13

Post by coryl » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:27 PM UTC

The great part about this type of cofounder is that they exhibit early proof everywhere they go. They keep impeccably awesome apartments. They have blogs that are exquisitely well-designed. They're own personal branding is clean, articulate, and meaningful.

I didn't know Steve Jobs had a well kept apartment and an exquisite blog. Is tripping on acid and living in India any better an indicator of your product design prowess?

I don't mean to be cynical, but this kind of writing to me is just "talking". The camp director, the hustler, the protege; they have these characteristics, come from this background, blah blah blah. No fact, all fiction, bullshit for the ear and mind.

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#14

Post by itmag » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

This was a good read for me, as I am currently looking for a co-founder.

It made me realize that I am already a Camp Director and Hustler myself, and made me re-affirm that what I need is a design co-founder (aka the Steve Jobs protegé, as he calls it).

Here are some startup ideas of mine btw: http://ideashower.posterous.com

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#15

Post by fleitz » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

joshklein wrote: post #3

I still can't understand how this gets missed in every one of these posts; a great business cofounder can be someone with an insane level of domain expertise either selling something like the thing you're making, or selling to the exact same people you want to sell to. If you're making, say, web analytics software for online retailers, your best business cofounder would be a guy who had just spent a year convincing o…

I really liked the hustler archetype, to me the hustler is the biz guy equivalent of the hacker. They are doing things they aren't supposed to be able to do and like the OP said are more scrappy than polished. As you said there are two critical functions, making and selling. Hackers make stuff, hustlers sell stuff.

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#16

Post by itmag » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

joshklein wrote: post #3

I still can't understand how this gets missed in every one of these posts; a great business cofounder can be someone with an insane level of domain expertise either selling something like the thing you're making, or selling to the exact same people you want to sell to. If you're making, say, web analytics software for online retailers, your best business cofounder would be a guy who had just spent a year convincing o…

Off-topic but relevant: everyone should look at this guy's book: http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Work-Breaking-Stupid-Results/d...

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#17

Post by itmag » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 7:44 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #6

I've been dealing with the flip side: I'm a highly technical MBA, started as a coder and got my MBA because I knew I needed it. I'd love to find serious minded technical co-founders, or even moderately experienced non-technical co-founders. I had good technical co-founders originally, but not good enough in that they drifted off when the startup took longer then they they wanted. Today, I'd love to find a strong tech…

You sound like an interesting dude. Too bad it's nowhere close to me :(

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#18

Post by earbitscom » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

> Think really hard about whether you actually need that business cofounder. Consider investing the time you'll spend looking for someone with improving your own sales/marketing/product skills. Join a community like Y Combinator and they'll help you learn all the mysterious business stuff that isn't actually that hard. In the end, if you make something people want, everything else will fall into place.

Honestly, the attitude toward "non-technical co-founders" needs to change in this community and the fact that anyone would say you don't really need one is just naive. Build it and they will come is a Silicon Valley pipe dream that happens to .1% of companies. Talking to customers, exploring competitive products, negotiating service contracts, firing up potential employment candidates, getting press, lining up distribution partners, selling clients, exploring new markets for potential leads, managing non-technical resources, fund raising, pitch writing, and more are just a handful of the things that a "non-technical co-founder" can be doing. Doing them yourself when you can find someone more experienced or focused on this is poor management of resources and speaks to an inability to delegate or manage limited company time and resources.

Having been through YC, I can tell you right now that not only will they not teach you "all the mysterious business stuff", but if you think "business stuff" isn't actually that hard, you work with shitty business people and aren't aggressive enough in your initiatives.

Everybody likes to downplay the importance of business people in startups. My first co-founder and I in Earbits were both non-technical. While we looked for a technical co-founder we lined up an advisory board from Google and EMI Music, raised friends and family money, recruited a designer for equity only to mock up our site and design our logo/brand, and had record labels sending us boxes of CDs for a radio platform that didn't even exist yet. During that time, three technical people flaked on our project, one of them after signing the paperwork to join. Do you see me talking about the lack of importance or reliability of technical people? No. Your bad experience or rumors about shitty business people are unfounded. Most successful companies have a solid business-oriented co-founder. For every crappy "idea guy" there is a flaky developer.

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#19

Post by joshklein » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 9:17 PM UTC

itmag wrote: post #16

joshklein wrote: post #3

I still can't understand how this gets missed in every one of these posts; a great business cofounder can be someone with an insane level of domain expertise either selling something like the thing you're making, or selling to the exact same people you want to sell to. If you're making, say, web analytics software for online retailers, your best business cofounder would be a guy who had just spent a year convincing o…

Off-topic but relevant: everyone should look at this guy's book: http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Work-Breaking-Stupid-Results/d...

Although I'm happy to be mistaken for that Josh Klein (he's great!), we are two different people. We met once and the universe didn't explode, so I'm fairly certain about this.

Re: How to find a business cofounder that doesn't suck

#20

Post by roel_v » Thu, Dec 01, 2011, 10:38 PM UTC

jcampbell1 wrote: post #8

One test for business co-founders is test if they can make cold contacts. There are so many MBAs who are nothing but marketing/strategy types, with no real sales ability, and so are of little use to a startup. When I hear a business person say, "I know this market/industry", I pretty much write them off. If a business person says, "I have worked in this industry, and I know dozens of people that shouldn't live withou…

*piqued