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Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

reuters.com

11–20 of 330 posts

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#11
post #2

> before Moscow sent its troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24. Do we really need to smooth "Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24"?

I don't see it as smoothing at all. "sent its troops into" is literally the definition of invading. Also the Russo-Ukrainian war started over 8 years ago. Calling the feb. 24. date for day-0 of the invasion is actually smoothing Russians aggregation even more.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#13
post #8

Who would benefit from this?

Anyone that wants to keep Germany off Russian gas no matter the developments.

But who is that? Ukraine should be fine with having Germany buy Russian gas since Germany keeps sending arms and push others to send arms. I don't see why the US would care either now that Germany is finally moving away from Russian gas. And Russia can just close the pipeline in a less destructive way.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#14
post #10

Who would benefit from this?

Putin, because he gets an excuse to cut Germany off of Russian gas. It's game of chicken now: the West sends weapons to help Ukrainian army chase off all the Russian invaders, and Putin tries to make energy crisis in EU so severe that Europe is forced to negotiate with him, and accept Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. Whoever can stay on their course longer wins.

Putin already lost that game since he allowed most (all?) EU countries to fill their gas reserves beyond 90%.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#15
post #10

Who would benefit from this?

Putin, because he gets an excuse to cut Germany off of Russian gas. It's game of chicken now: the West sends weapons to help Ukrainian army chase off all the Russian invaders, and Putin tries to make energy crisis in EU so severe that Europe is forced to negotiate with him, and accept Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. Whoever can stay on their course longer wins.

I have seen this line of thinking multiple places. It doesn't make any sense. Russia makes the energy crisis by turning off the gas. Destruction of the nordstream line only makes it impossible to start the gas exporting in case Russia want to sell it again and/or the sanctions are lifted. The obvious result of this is making sure that trade relationships with Russia can't go back to normal anytime soon.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#16
post #10

Who would benefit from this?

Putin, because he gets an excuse to cut Germany off of Russian gas. It's game of chicken now: the West sends weapons to help Ukrainian army chase off all the Russian invaders, and Putin tries to make energy crisis in EU so severe that Europe is forced to negotiate with him, and accept Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. Whoever can stay on their course longer wins.

No pipelines means no Russian gas period. Putin loses because even if he wanted to, he can't send gas anymore.

I've been hoping from the start that someone would sabotage the pipelines to remove the temptation. Guess I got my wish.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#17
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that wants to keep Germany off Russian gas no matter the developments.

But who is that? Ukraine should be fine with having Germany buy Russian gas since Germany keeps sending arms and push others to send arms. I don't see why the US would care either now that Germany is finally moving away from Russian gas. And Russia can just close the pipeline in a less destructive way.

It can be anyone. Could even be a private person. But yeah its definitely not Russia.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#19
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that wants to keep Germany off Russian gas no matter the developments.

But who is that? Ukraine should be fine with having Germany buy Russian gas since Germany keeps sending arms and push others to send arms. I don't see why the US would care either now that Germany is finally moving away from Russian gas. And Russia can just close the pipeline in a less destructive way.

Ukraine will be fine, post-war, with Germany buying Russian gas that went through pipelines on Ukrainian soils, because they get paid transit fees.

No transit fees necessary for Nord Stream.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#20
post #10

Who would benefit from this?

Putin, because he gets an excuse to cut Germany off of Russian gas. It's game of chicken now: the West sends weapons to help Ukrainian army chase off all the Russian invaders, and Putin tries to make energy crisis in EU so severe that Europe is forced to negotiate with him, and accept Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. Whoever can stay on their course longer wins.

That doesn't make any sense. If the sanctions are indeed lifted, how should the gas be transported into Europe that the Russian economy is dependent upon? This guessing game is silly in lieu of any hard evidence. It could be Ukraine or the US in order to enforce sanction even after a ceasefire. It could be Algeria or Venezuela or Qatar to guarantee gas supply by them. It could be Norway or an orca whale for all we know -- but we don't as of yet
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