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Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

reuters.com

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Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#11

Post by gpderetta »

dane-pgp wrote: post #2

I'd be interested to know if the EU law that the ECJ relied on differs from or goes further than the case law from the European Court of Human Rights that the UK is still a member of. A ruling against mass data retention in the UK could help Privacy International in their on-going case against the government for its mass surveillance and use of "bulk personal datasets". https://www.privacyinternational.org/long-read/…

Mass data retention and surveillance has been ruled illegal multiple times both by ECJ and ECHR (as it is in direct contravention with the right to privacy in article 8). In particular UK is still supposedly bound by the ECHR even after Brexit. Unsurprisingly, EU governments and UK in particular, do not care, and there is only so much these courts can do to enforce their judgments.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#12

Post by ajsnigrutin »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

> I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from.

I understand... it's simple... someone does something bad, nothing happens to them... bad thing again... nothing happens... people protest... nothing happens... bad thing again.. nothing happens...

If this was some other timeline, and people brought guillotines out every couple of years and "dealt with" the "bad" politicians in "the french way", politicians themselves would be calling for jail sentances, because they'd atleast be alive in there.

Otherwise, i live in a different country, and the political situation is the same.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#13

Post by themitigating »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

Political apathy comes from the political party that would most benefit from low turnout.

If you are disappointed with politics that is a reason to vote. If you don't care, that's a valid reason not to vote

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#14

Post by xyzzyz »

rmbyrro wrote: post #5

Is the ECJ kind of a Supreme Court that can overturn member state laws and rulings? I had the impression member states were 100% sovereign within the EU...

A good mental model is that EU works pretty much like US did 100 years ago. The US states were roughly as sovereign as EU states (with some important differences, especially in defense and immigration), and US federal government was similarly powerful to EU government.

This has, of course, changed over the last century, and US states lost most of their sovereignty. I predict the same will happen to EU states over the next century.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#15

Post by chippiewill »

rmbyrro wrote: post #5

Is the ECJ kind of a Supreme Court that can overturn member state laws and rulings? I had the impression member states were 100% sovereign within the EU...

Member states are sovereign insofar as the EU institutions only have jurisdiction because the member states allow them to do so. EU law only applies because local law says it applies. The ECJ is the highest court in any of the member countries because the law in those countries say it is.

This differs from the situation in the US where Texas couldn't pass an amendment to their state constitution declaring that they are no longer subject to federal law. State law is subordinate to federal law / the US constitution.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#16

Post by geewee »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

Seems like we've had basically the exact same case in Denmark. A law gets overturned by the ECJ and they just make another law that's slightly different. Then they say there's a certain "process risk" regarding the law which basically means it might not be compatible with EU law at all. Pisses me off.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#17

Post by amelius »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

> I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from.

It comes from voter indifference.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#18

Post by clarionbell »

xyzzyz wrote: post #14
rmbyrro wrote: post #5

Is the ECJ kind of a Supreme Court that can overturn member state laws and rulings? I had the impression member states were 100% sovereign within the EU...

A good mental model is that EU works pretty much like US did 100 years ago. The US states were roughly as sovereign as EU states (with some important differences, especially in defense and immigration), and US federal government was similarly powerful to EU government. This has, of course, changed over the last century, and US states lost most of their sovereignty. I predict the same will happen to EU states over the…

That would be in 1920s and states were far from sovereign back then. Maybe 1820s, then one could argue the union was more 'loose'. But even then, the union was pretty tight. Hence constant issue of slavery in federal law.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#19

Post by philipov »

amelius wrote: post #17
Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

> I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. It comes from voter indifference.

This is a tautology and doesn't answer the question.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#20

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dagw wrote: post #8
rmbyrro wrote: post #5

Is the ECJ kind of a Supreme Court that can overturn member state laws and rulings? I had the impression member states were 100% sovereign within the EU...

ECJ can only rule on EU laws. So as such they are not overturning any German laws, just stating the the German law is not in compliance with EU regulations. What that means in practice varies a lot from case to case, but in general the EU has the power to fine members that are in breach of EU regulations. For practical reasons most EU countries want to be in compliance with EU law and will often follow ECJ recommenda…

> many EU countries have laws that essentially state that all their laws must comply with EU law

Isn’t granting the ECJ jurisdiction is a requirement of EU membership?

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