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Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

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Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#11
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

This would be for DT fusion, so most of the energy would come out as neutrons.

And it would face the same showstoppingly bad volumetric power density as tokamaks, because of limits on that energy flow through the surface of the reactor.

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#12
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

From what I've understood from previous discussions (don't know much about plasma physics though): It is a multistep challenge. Step 1: Figure out how to get a self-sustaining fusion reaction. Step 2: figure out how to extract the energy in a useful, safe, non-destructive (to the reactor) way.

Doing Step 1 alone is very difficult so the've postponed Step 2 to the future. I may be wrong though.

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#13
post #8
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

Since the plasma runs hotter than the Sun, and the magnetic field cannot confine photons, my guess is that the hull will become insanely hot, and you could use it to drive a steam engine.

Ah interesting, so then the coolant for the shielding is also the means to power a generator.

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#14
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

I'm not sure, but there's a thing called the 'Divertor' in some designs, it's said to be for removing inpurities, but some things talk about it being used for removing heat as well: https://www.iter.org/mach/Divertor

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#15
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

Because no known material can withstand direct contact with the plasma. Even with the air gap the walls require a cooling system, and therefore a continuous hot stream of fluid will be generated like in any other thermal power plant.

However, at the stage fusion research is, the main problem is figuring how to create a device to keep the plasma fluid stable for long periods of time. As far as I know, none of the existing prototypes aims to be a functional electricity generator.

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#16
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

I'm not sure, but there's a thing called the 'Divertor' in some designs, it's said to be for removing inpurities, but some things talk about it being used for removing heat as well: https://www.iter.org/mach/Divertor

oh, and the other thing is some of the walls they talk about having 'blankets' that absorb the neutrons and ... somehow get the heat out; one of them is 'flibe' which is a lithium salt: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00295450.2019.1...

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#17
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

From what I've understood from previous discussions (don't know much about plasma physics though): It is a multistep challenge. Step 1: Figure out how to get a self-sustaining fusion reaction. Step 2: figure out how to extract the energy in a useful, safe, non-destructive (to the reactor) way. Doing Step 1 alone is very difficult so the've postponed Step 2 to the future. I may be wrong though.

I would imagine since, combined, we're spending tens of billions of dollars on Fusion research - someone must have some ideas for step 2, right?!

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#19
post #2

This has to be the most opaque title I’ve ever seen on Hacker News. For anyone wondering, this is about a potential development in cold fusion reactors.

More opaque than every nth HN title referring to some cutely-monikered code framework that presses all the wrong mental buttons in those oblivious to its nature? Surely not.

Re: Revamped German stellarator should run longer, hotter and compete with tokamaks

#20
post #6

Forgive my ignorance; what with all the effort made to isolate the exceedingly hot plasma from connecting with any surface, what are the plans to extract the heat in order to generate power?

https://www.iter.org/sci/MakingitWork:

“The helium nucleus carries an electric charge which will be subject to the magnetic fields of the tokamak and remain confined within the plasma, contributing to its continued heating. However, approximately 80 percent of the energy produced is carried away from the plasma by the neutron which has no electrical charge and is therefore unaffected by magnetic fields. The neutrons will be absorbed by the surrounding walls of the tokamak, where their kinetic energy will be transferred to the walls as heat.

In ITER, this heat will be captured by cooling water circulating in the vessel walls and eventually dispersed through cooling towers. In the type of fusion power plant envisaged for the second half of this century, the heat will be used to produce steam and—by way of turbines and alternators—electricity.”

That’s about ITER, but the two devices do not differ in this.

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