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We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

desertsun.com

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Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#11

Post by spanktheuser »

Dear desert sun,

It's your old neighbor the Midwest. Haven't seen you for a while. Not since you moved out to the sunny desert. Made fun of us for our high taxes and our unions and our dying manufacturing. Har har.

Anyway, how's retirement going? Taken in a lot of Ted talks? Good. For. You. Anyway, enough small talk. We got your letter asking for a favor and here's our reply:

We warned you decades ago not to build large population centers in an arid desert. We warned you to shepherd your meager water resources carefully. To landscape with something other than green lawns. To not build suburbs full of private pools and sprawling, car-dependent development. To not grow alfalfa and other water intensive crops.

You ignored us and you prospered. Until now when you hit the brick wall we told you was coming. We even told you when it was coming. You have been greedy and you have been arrogant. And so we quietly protected our water with laws. As one does from fools.

If you want us to share it, we are happy to. All you have to do is move here. I took the liberty of pricing some flights. Turns out it's a lot easier to ship you here than to ship water to you. I know it's gonna be rough starting over after losing all the equity in your house. Hope you see the humor in so many mortgages underwater as the result of a drought. It's important to laugh in tough times.

I bet you are ready for some good news? There are tons of jobs available here. Turns out all the businesses you created when you disrupted Midwest industry & Midwest labor are hiring. You can work at an Amazon warehouse. Or drive a car for Uber. Have your tips stolen by Instacart. The opportunities are as endless as the medical debt you'll be in should you ever become sick.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing you at a cookout real soon. Hope you remember how to make potato salad. Or figure out how to make desalinization work on a massive scale. 'Cause no moving back if you don't bring potato salad. The spicy kind with the miracle whip please.

Sincerely, The Great Lakes basin and Missouri / Mississipi watershed.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#12

Post by richk449 »

superkuh wrote: post #10
richk449 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems easier to move water than people. Plus, sun is good for people and crops. Transferring water to where it will be useful seems like the kind of thing a government should do.

My visceral reaction was also anger and opposition. It's questionable if it can be done in a way that's not harmful to the Mississippi watershed and ogallala aquifer. But you're right, the human good it could do would justify much. The advocacy group NRDC has a much better explanation of the general concept and specific Mississippi/Ogallala proposal: https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/Water-Pipelines-rep... Two…

> My visceral reaction was also anger and opposition

It is interesting that a project like this runs into visceral opposition from two different sides. Those on the left may object that we shouldn't be messing with the natural world in ways that will have consequences we won't understand. Those on the right may object that we shouldn't be attempting large expensive government projects that will intrude on individual liberty.

Both objections have some validity. But neither are cost/benefit analyses, which is a much better way to evaluate whether we should be doing something than asking whether it perfectly aligns with my principles.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#13

Post by richk449 »

rhexs wrote: post #5

Jesus, California and Nevada draining the "flyover" states? Can't get much more dystopian than that. How about this -- build some desalination plants on the vast Californian coast. Nevada and Arizona can pitch in and share.

If you want the whole dystopia in novel form, read The Water Knife. First half is incredibly enjoyable world building. Second half is a fairly mediocre action mystery plot, which you can skip.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#14

Post by [deleted] »

donatj wrote: post #6
rhexs wrote: post #5

Jesus, California and Nevada draining the "flyover" states? Can't get much more dystopian than that. How about this -- build some desalination plants on the vast Californian coast. Nevada and Arizona can pitch in and share.

> California and Nevada draining the "flyover" states You want to start Civil War 2? Because this is how you do it.

[deleted]

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#15

Post by vorpalhex »

dv_dt wrote: post #9
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #2

We need to stop building massive cities in the desert and expecting that they'll have enough water. Maybe we should get on with that , instead? And, when someone proposes that a grand "we" need to do something that will benefit them personally, that makes me a lot more skeptical. You want a water pipeline? You go build it. Don't look at me; don't even look at my tax dollars. But if you want it, feel free to get right…

If the cities weren’t built up the agricultural water users would likely just use more water. They account for 80% of California’s use.

Most of that watershed is also theirs. The cities have taken more and more of it.

They can drive the farmers away, that is an option - then they'll have high food prices _and_ drought.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#16

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dv_dt wrote: post #9
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #2

We need to stop building massive cities in the desert and expecting that they'll have enough water. Maybe we should get on with that , instead? And, when someone proposes that a grand "we" need to do something that will benefit them personally, that makes me a lot more skeptical. You want a water pipeline? You go build it. Don't look at me; don't even look at my tax dollars. But if you want it, feel free to get right…

If the cities weren’t built up the agricultural water users would likely just use more water. They account for 80% of California’s use.

Right, but "XYZ Alfalfa Farm is going under because it can't get enough water" is a lot different from "Phoenix is without water". It's different in terms of economic impact, and it's different in terms of number of people affected.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#17

Post by jelliclesfarm »

spanktheuser wrote: post #11

Dear desert sun, It's your old neighbor the Midwest. Haven't seen you for a while. Not since you moved out to the sunny desert. Made fun of us for our high taxes and our unions and our dying manufacturing. Har har. Anyway, how's retirement going? Taken in a lot of Ted talks? Good. For. You. Anyway, enough small talk. We got your letter asking for a favor and here's our reply: We warned you decades ago not to build la…

Thank you for penning this. I thoroughly enjoyed it. P.S: It’s all true.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#18

Post by rektide »

This topic would be less of a sick joke if there werent absurd "water rights" given away 100 years ago that bankrupt the system.

I worked as an intern at NIH and buying fancy office furniture & computers was a thing to maintain budgets. There's a hoard of "farmers" using "water rights" to grow incredibly water ineffective crops (pistaccios, almonds) and just wasting water in general that far outstrip residential demand. Society owes these people, these leeches, nothing.

The idea of buying this illegitemate system out is disgraceful; none of this has ever been reasonable or fair. Change the California constitution that protects this horrific abomination & just end this world-killing pact.

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#19

Post by morninglight »

Great idea, but I can save you some time and money. Lake Tahoe is nearer to you and has a volume of 36 cu mi (150 km3; 120,000,000 acre⋅ft). Since it sits at an elevation of 6,225 ft, the path would be mostly downhill.

So call the folks living in Incline Village on the North side of the lake and discuss your plans.

Hurry now, let's get on with it. .

Re: We need to move water from Midwest west. Let's get on with it.

#20

Post by donatj »

richk449 wrote: post #7
donatj wrote: post #3

Nope. Just nope. Not going to happen. You can move, you are mobile. Move to where the water is.

It seems easier to move water than people. Plus, sun is good for people and crops. Transferring water to where it will be useful seems like the kind of thing a government should do.

I don't know how you figure that. People move every day on their own.

People can literally just start walking east for free.

> Plus, sun is good for people and crops

We've got plenty of sunlight in the Midwest, I assure you. We don't need any of yours.

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