Using RISC-V doesn't let you bypass chip shortages... Do they actually understand what they're talking about?
Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
11–20 of 129 posts
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are server specs but embedded was the initial priority. I don't think there's been a lot of attention paid to desktop which isn't a super interesting area in general although it could of course piggyback on server work from a spec perspective if anyone were actually interested in giving it a go.
Without a company like Apple to put in the resources and engineering effort for something like Rosetta, there's really going to be next to no demand for a RISC-V based desktop computer outside of specialized development and maybe competing with ARM-based Chromebook-likes. Desktop systems are absolutely beholden to their platform and architecture because that's what determines which apps you can run. Any serious use o…
True.
But I think more importantly, there will be no demand until someone makes a RISC-V CPU that can actually compete with Intel, AMD and Apple on performance.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without a company like Apple to put in the resources and engineering effort for something like Rosetta, there's really going to be next to no demand for a RISC-V based desktop computer outside of specialized development and maybe competing with ARM-based Chromebook-likes. Desktop systems are absolutely beholden to their platform and architecture because that's what determines which apps you can run. Any serious use o…
True. But I think more importantly, there will be no demand until someone makes a RISC-V CPU that can actually compete with Intel, AMD and Apple on performance.
I don't think that's necessarily a prerequisite. At least you could conceivably see demand for low-power, moderate performance Chromebook(-like) devices. For true desktop computing, yeah, I agree.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#14I suspect most of RISC-V development is more towards moving away from western controlled ISA's that can be sanctioned for any reason. Points about avoid shortages from any fab being allowed to fabricate RISC-V CPUs is just the "cherry on top".
If you're manufacturing chips under sanctions your most difficult finds are going to be the manufacturing equipment, expertise, and raw materials to produce the chips. It's not going to be an ISA - there have been a litany of "open" ISAs and well-documented industry standard ones you're likely going to do unlicensed copies of.
Secondary challenge here, going beyond the ISA, are pre-defined blocks of functionality already implemented (eg: an ethernet controller, internal CPU busses, memory controllers, etc). Even in the RISC-V world many of these are commercial and require a license.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are server specs but embedded was the initial priority. I don't think there's been a lot of attention paid to desktop which isn't a super interesting area in general although it could of course piggyback on server work from a spec perspective if anyone were actually interested in giving it a go.
Without a company like Apple to put in the resources and engineering effort for something like Rosetta, there's really going to be next to no demand for a RISC-V based desktop computer outside of specialized development and maybe competing with ARM-based Chromebook-likes. Desktop systems are absolutely beholden to their platform and architecture because that's what determines which apps you can run. Any serious use o…
It's not the biggest subsegment of the desktop space, but there are a good number of people using Pi-level devices as a second desktop. RiscOS, Linux, NetBSD, and even Windows run on Raspberry Pi. Some of those run on several other similarly powered boards. In the open source space, plenty of apps already support AMD64, ARM32 and ARM64 and the distros distribute for them. If I can get Debian or Ubuntu on a system with even 1/10 the package repo of AMD64, it's worth considering for a cheap laptop or a small low-power desktop.
Now I know that doesn't sound like much. Don't kid yourself into thinking Apple Silicon M1 and M2 came from nowhere, though. If it wasn't for growing capability in the ARM lines in other products Apple would not have been so likely to invest in it for their new technology, Rosetta or no. Exynos Chromebooks and such led the way to ARM Macbooks the same way the IBM PC led to displacing DEC and Sun workstations, then minicomputers, then x86 servers replacing most other servers in the DC.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#16Using RISC-V doesn't let you bypass chip shortages... Do they actually understand what they're talking about?
Any fab is allowed to produce a RISC-V CPU. You will also have far more core designs that can work across different fabrication possess.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#17I suspect most of RISC-V development is more towards moving away from western controlled ISA's that can be sanctioned for any reason. Points about avoid shortages from any fab being allowed to fabricate RISC-V CPUs is just the "cherry on top".
Maybe. It's not like sanctioned countries tend give a shit about copyright law, so how would sanctions prevent the use of something they already know how to make and use? I'm just not convinced this idea holds any water.
Not breaking copyright makes it easier for a eastern block to form around RISC-V fabrication.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#18I suspect most of RISC-V development is more towards moving away from western controlled ISA's that can be sanctioned for any reason. Points about avoid shortages from any fab being allowed to fabricate RISC-V CPUs is just the "cherry on top".
I doubt that countries like Iran, North Korean and now Russia care much about the legality of implementing a ARM processor without a license. Or did you mean more in terms of a chip that can be sold to those countries without risk? In that case you just sacrion the sale of the equipment required to make the chip, or block the manufacturer from your markets.
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#19Using RISC-V doesn't let you bypass chip shortages... Do they actually understand what they're talking about?
Eventually, if you have pin-compatible chips from several manufacturers, they could replace chips from lets say Taiwan with ones from Europe perhaps?
Re: Amid chip shortages, companies bet on RISC-V
#20Access to high purity quartz is the real bottle neck. You can have your own fabs and designs.. but if America and Russia refuse to sell you some Quartz.. you are out of luck!
https://www.persistencemarketresearch.com/market-research/hi....