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Oven: The Company Behind Bun

oven.sh

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Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#11

Post by brrrrrm »

verdverm wrote: post #9
brrrrrm wrote: post #7

Congrats to Jarred! Bun has blown me away in terms of performance. Often (in other projects) performance claims out of nowhere are simply cherry-picked but I’ve found bun repeatedly impressing me with both speed and elegance. What doesn’t get mentioned enough is just how friggin ergonomic bun is. Install it and you’ll see what I mean immediately. Play with any API in the “bun:” namespace and it’s just a breath of fre…

I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Bun is definitely not production ready yet, but I'm keeping my eye on it for sure https://github.com/oven-sh/bun#not-implemented-yet

I’m not familiar with deployment in the modern web world, but I’m curious how fast those specific features need to be in a production setting? Are they done dynamically for every request?

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#12

Post by ctvo »

verdverm wrote: post #9
brrrrrm wrote: post #7

Congrats to Jarred! Bun has blown me away in terms of performance. Often (in other projects) performance claims out of nowhere are simply cherry-picked but I’ve found bun repeatedly impressing me with both speed and elegance. What doesn’t get mentioned enough is just how friggin ergonomic bun is. Install it and you’ll see what I mean immediately. Play with any API in the “bun:” namespace and it’s just a breath of fre…

I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Bun is definitely not production ready yet, but I'm keeping my eye on it for sure https://github.com/oven-sh/bun#not-implemented-yet

> I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking?

Can you explain why you think a transpilation step will prove to be a technical challenge here? The "bundler" part of Bun seems like a very small piece, and not something that would impact its performance as a runtime too greatly.

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#13

Post by Jarred »

verdverm wrote: post #9
brrrrrm wrote: post #7

Congrats to Jarred! Bun has blown me away in terms of performance. Often (in other projects) performance claims out of nowhere are simply cherry-picked but I’ve found bun repeatedly impressing me with both speed and elegance. What doesn’t get mentioned enough is just how friggin ergonomic bun is. Install it and you’ll see what I mean immediately. Play with any API in the “bun:” namespace and it’s just a breath of fre…

I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Bun is definitely not production ready yet, but I'm keeping my eye on it for sure https://github.com/oven-sh/bun#not-implemented-yet

Sourcemaps are technically already implemented, but not for bundled dependencies. Initially, it was a 30% drop, but I made it use lots of SIMD and that compensated a lot. When you use Bun's runtime, it transpiles every file (including non-TypeScript files) and generates an in-memory sourcemap so that error messages have useful line/column numbers. Bun's fast startup time is very much in spite of things like this.

Minification will likely make it faster because there will be less code to print (see https://twitter.com/evanwallace/status/1396304029840396290). Many of the syntax compression and small optimizations like ("foo" + " " + "bar") becoming "foo bar" are implemented already, but not the whitespace removal

It might have an impact on bundling performance overall because that will involve an extra pass to more correctly handle `export * as from`, which isn't as important when used with the runtime (since that can happen at runtime)

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#14

Post by brundolf »

ctvo wrote: post #12
verdverm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Bun is definitely not production ready yet, but I'm keeping my eye on it for sure https://github.com/oven-sh/bun#not-implemented-yet

> I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Can you explain why you think a transpilation step will prove to be a technical challenge here? The "bundler" part of Bun seems like a very small piece, and not something that would impact its performance as a runtime too greatly.

A lot of the conversation around Bun's performance has included the performance of non-runtime things like how fast it can install packages, perform builds, cold-start, etc

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#15

Post by quickthrower2 »

solardev wrote: post #6
latenightcoding wrote: post #3

"Oven, the company behind Bun, has raised $7m in funding" "Oven will provide incredibly fast serverless hosting & continuous integration for backend & frontend JavaScript apps" Isn't trying to dethrone node.js (by making Bun better and more popular) something worth pursuing on its own, or there is no money in that?

Isn't that what they're doing? Providing a monetizable system around open source software. It's the Vercel/Next.js model

I wonder if AWS is a sleeping crocodile ready to eat all these dev-focused paas companies up (by competing or takeovers) in a while. Maybe they are waiting to see who wins first.

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#16

Post by brrrrrm »

brundolf wrote: post #10
brrrrrm wrote: post #7

Congrats to Jarred! Bun has blown me away in terms of performance. Often (in other projects) performance claims out of nowhere are simply cherry-picked but I’ve found bun repeatedly impressing me with both speed and elegance. What doesn’t get mentioned enough is just how friggin ergonomic bun is. Install it and you’ll see what I mean immediately. Play with any API in the “bun:” namespace and it’s just a breath of fre…

I'm curious about where all that performance comes from I know it uses the WebKit JS runtime instead of V8, which is super interesting. Does that cause a performance lift? Or is there some other secret sauce that pervades throughout Bun? Or is it just a matter of Jarred giving lots of attention to spot-optimizing the most important bottlenecks outside of the core runtime?

I suspect it’s the latter. I would guess V8 with a thin wrapper and a ton of effort from someone who cares about perf to port all the native goodies of node would get similar wins.

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#17

Post by juancampa »

behnamoh wrote: post #8

I love these funny names. First time I introduced HomeBrew to my gf, she was all laughing at the funny terms: keg - Program binaries created from source bottle - Program binaries downloaded cellar - Directory where kegs / binaries are stored tap - git repository cask - macos native binary (not used in Linux)

I find these terms to be incredibly confusing though. I've seen them many times but can't seem to remember what's what.

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#18

Post by [deleted] »

latenightcoding wrote: post #3

"Oven, the company behind Bun, has raised $7m in funding" "Oven will provide incredibly fast serverless hosting & continuous integration for backend & frontend JavaScript apps" Isn't trying to dethrone node.js (by making Bun better and more popular) something worth pursuing on its own, or there is no money in that?

[deleted]

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#19

Post by Jarred »

brundolf wrote: post #10
brrrrrm wrote: post #7

Congrats to Jarred! Bun has blown me away in terms of performance. Often (in other projects) performance claims out of nowhere are simply cherry-picked but I’ve found bun repeatedly impressing me with both speed and elegance. What doesn’t get mentioned enough is just how friggin ergonomic bun is. Install it and you’ll see what I mean immediately. Play with any API in the “bun:” namespace and it’s just a breath of fre…

I'm curious about where all that performance comes from I know it uses the WebKit JS runtime instead of V8, which is super interesting. Does that cause a performance lift? Or is there some other secret sauce that pervades throughout Bun? Or is it just a matter of Jarred giving lots of attention to spot-optimizing the most important bottlenecks outside of the core runtime?

There's no secret sauce

Just lots of time spent profiling and trying things

On the runtime side, JavaScriptCore/WebKit's team are extremely receptive to feedback, especially performance-related. Today, @Constellation made `Promise.all` about 30% faster https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/pull/3569

Re: Oven: The Company Behind Bun

#20

Post by verdverm »

ctvo wrote: post #12
verdverm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Bun is definitely not production ready yet, but I'm keeping my eye on it for sure https://github.com/oven-sh/bun#not-implemented-yet

> I'm curious if it will be as fast after implementing some must have features like sourcemaps, minification, and tree shaking? Can you explain why you think a transpilation step will prove to be a technical challenge here? The "bundler" part of Bun seems like a very small piece, and not something that would impact its performance as a runtime too greatly.

I only use JS/TS on the client side, which will end up running in the browser, thus being able to use Bun to create production code will require these features. I didn't say they were technical challenges, but these processes require more complex analysis and algos.
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