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Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

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11–20 of 145 posts

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#11
post #7

I remember making fun of Microsoft trying to combine mouse and touch in a single UI. And yet here we are, Apple doing the same thing to macOS, resulting in the same shit desktop/mouse experience that macOS has become. I understand the reasons but it seems so incredibly un-Apple to sacrifice UX for this.

I wonder if someone inside is still pushing desktop/mobile "convergence."

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#12
post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

The iPad can't replace the Mac unless I can run my own software on it outside the App Store.

Part of the definition of a "real computer" is that it's truly general purpose. Anything not meeting this requirement is a special purpose device or at most a "console," which is the category I place iOS devices into.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#13

It's really not an impressive showing for SwiftUI. 4 iterations later and after being told it's "the future" in unequivocal terms, it's still at 12% (and only like 3% without any AppKit combined (last chart)). It's not dogfooded for any productivity apps. For Ventura, rewriting "Font Book, System Settings, and Tips" is not exactly confidence inducing. If they rewrote Pages or Final Cut Pro, that would wake people up.…

Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#14

It's really not an impressive showing for SwiftUI. 4 iterations later and after being told it's "the future" in unequivocal terms, it's still at 12% (and only like 3% without any AppKit combined (last chart)). It's not dogfooded for any productivity apps. For Ventura, rewriting "Font Book, System Settings, and Tips" is not exactly confidence inducing. If they rewrote Pages or Final Cut Pro, that would wake people up.…

Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI

> Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI

It's not about Final Cut Pro specifically. It could be a new app. It's about having a single showcase complex app that says to developers—look hey we can build something really performance intensive and sophisticated in SwiftUI. We're dogfooding it. Look what can be accomplished with it!

It could be anything—Final Cut Pro, Logic, Pages, Numbers, a new productivity app all together. Some showcase sophisticated, complex productivity app to show what can be done with it and we're in the trenches with you using it.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#15
post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

That argument is shortsighted. Classic business school thinking. No consideration of second order effects or long term strategy.

Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution.

You’re on top of the world…

Until you’re not.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#16
post #7

I remember making fun of Microsoft trying to combine mouse and touch in a single UI. And yet here we are, Apple doing the same thing to macOS, resulting in the same shit desktop/mouse experience that macOS has become. I understand the reasons but it seems so incredibly un-Apple to sacrifice UX for this.

Some of the apps they replaced with 'iPad versions' were abysmal to begin with, so it's more of a lateral move.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#17
post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

That argument is shortsighted. Classic business school thinking. No consideration of second order effects or long term strategy. Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. You’re on top of the world… Until you’re not.

> Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution.

It used to be but not anymore. The iPhone is Apple's most important product and the majority of iPhone users aren't interested in the Mac.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI

> Why would they rewrite Final Cut Pro in SwiftUI? Rewriting code is a large effort and a waste of time without proper justification – new developer tooling for UI is not usually a good enough justification to rewrite the entire UI It's not about Final Cut Pro specifically. It could be a new app. It's about having a single showcase complex app that says to developers—look hey we can build something really performance…

Absolutely! So you need to align that goal with a project that is actually going to provide value to the end user. There aren’t enough new features each year to (re)write large portions of macOS UI.

The Shortcuts app in macOS 12 and the Settings app in macOS 13 are almost entirely SwiftUI and the most substantial projects in this regard

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is shortsighted. Classic business school thinking. No consideration of second order effects or long term strategy. Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. You’re on top of the world… Until you’re not.

> Sure, that’s where things stand today, but the Mac is part of Apples brand. They screw it up enough and iPhone won’t win on its strengths anymore. Design and execution. It used to be but not anymore. The iPhone is Apple's most important product and the majority of iPhone users aren't interested in the Mac.

Let’s do a thought experiment.

If the Mac disappeared today in a puff of smoke, would that result in less iPhones sold, a less prestigious brand, or maybe an improvement?

An additional argument is that companies rarely have one major product. Apple is big enough to execute well on several synergistic fronts.

$30b is an awesome business all on its own, and compliments, not detracts from, the iPhone brand.

Apple should be able to execute in multiple domains with a high degree of quality all at once.

Re: Apple’s Use of AppKit, Mac Catalyst and SwiftUI in macOS

#20
post #12
post #4

In 2021, the Mac grossed $30B. iPad ($30B) and iPhone ($196B) together grossed $226B. Mac users might think they're still the most important part of Apple but it turns out, the Mac is quite insignificant compared to Apple's mobile OS's when you put things in perspective. I am still surprised that Apple is pouring resources into the Mac. Nowadays, smartphones and tablets are the main computer for 90% of people. The so…

The iPad can't replace the Mac unless I can run my own software on it outside the App Store. Part of the definition of a "real computer" is that it's truly general purpose. Anything not meeting this requirement is a special purpose device or at most a "console," which is the category I place iOS devices into.

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of people understand the implications of this distinction.
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