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Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

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11–20 of 94 posts

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#11
post #2

I’m sad that we no longer have any Ted Nelson’s in the world of tech. There’s simply too much money now for smart people to waste their time on “interesting” things.

Oh we definitely still have Ted Nelsons, what we don't have is a way to find them. Right now people are lost deep in some social media private groups and the surface level information is all war, disease and drugs.

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#12
post #8

Instead of Ted Nelson telling the world what everyone can learn from him, I would like to hear him talk about what he learned from the real world. Xanadu is probably the biggest vaporware in the history of computing. Maybe some lessons learned about how he had all these “brilliant” ideas but never actually made something that actual people actually use. But that would require humility, introspection, and self-awarene…

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into successful software projects. Good ideas aren't destroyed by poor excecution.

Then again as Steve Jobs said:

“ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into successful software projects. Good ideas aren't destroyed by poor excecution.

Then again as Steve Jobs said: “ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”

In terms of quickly making money this is true.

But here I'd like to think about likely world changing tech. As long as the (successful) execution comes one day, it doesn't matter if it happens 20 years ago or 10 years from now.

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again as Steve Jobs said: “ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”

In terms of quickly making money this is true. But here I'd like to think about likely world changing tech. As long as the (successful) execution comes one day, it doesn't matter if it happens 20 years ago or 10 years from now.

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Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#16
post #8

Instead of Ted Nelson telling the world what everyone can learn from him, I would like to hear him talk about what he learned from the real world. Xanadu is probably the biggest vaporware in the history of computing. Maybe some lessons learned about how he had all these “brilliant” ideas but never actually made something that actual people actually use. But that would require humility, introspection, and self-awarene…

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into successful software projects. Good ideas aren't destroyed by poor excecution.

Transclusion is a very good idea from my point of view. I saw and used it in Ivar Jacobson's Objectory tool and eventually also implemented it in my CrossLine and other tools (see https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine, https://github.com/rochus-keller/FlowLine2/, etc.).

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into successful software projects. Good ideas aren't destroyed by poor excecution.

Then again as Steve Jobs said: “ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”

> ideas are worth nothing unless executed.

Maybe if you only have a business focus. He was apparently not interested in fundamental research.

Re: Ted Nelson on What Modern Programmers Can Learn from the Past (2018)

#19

The subtitle says Ted was the inventor of hypertext, but in the interview he credits Doug Engelbart. You can hear him say it if you listen from 4:30 to 4:45. "We thought computing would be artisanal. We did not imagine great monopolies." Even though hindsight is 20/20, I'm still surprised that the power of network effects didn't occur to him (or whoever the "we" refers to). "... artistic expression ..." Reminds me a…

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