I love those "under construction" images at the bottom. Takes me back to the 90's.
Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
11–20 of 78 posts
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#12Funny how I was instantly triggered as a SaaS maker by the title, ready to unroll in the comments and then quickly realized upon reading that I am not the audience here and the title does make a lot of sense for the intended audience :) Unexpected self-calibration completed. Nice.
Same, I thought it was going to be an argument about MVPs
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#13Title is click-bait, it’s about a very, very narrow subset of the topic — that is Linux patches.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
So distros like Manjaro should stop calling themselves "rolling release" distros and start calling themselves "nightly" distros, so everyone is aware of the potential instability? Is there any rolling release distro that already follows the suggestion of only distributing tagged releases?
Distributions like Manjaro should change their behavior and quit shipping unfinished patches.
What if the whole point is about shipping unfinished patches?
But also this should mean that the buck stops with the distribution, not with the developers.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#15But then again, free and open source licenses enable everyone to do any modifications for any purpose whatsoever. That's the whole point. I would like it if the developers quit being patronizing towards people exercising their rights under those licenses. Yes, don't ship it, don't theme my app. We all heard you. Some people choose to not care, and that's okay.
Those same licenses also disclaim any warranty, so the buck stops with whomever applies random patches and takes money for it. In this case, the phone manufacturer shipping OS images. The phone manufacturer can duke it out with Manjaro, of course, and Manjaro folks can tell them to go pound sand and use Debian stable. This is well before upstream should even notice a shadow of kerfuffle happening.
The developers have come up with a multitude of ideas on how to be passive aggressive towards anyone either trying to contribute or submit an issue, stalebot and radio silence being only two of them, so I'm wondering why they just won't apply those techniques this time.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#16For some additional context: https://blog.brixit.nl/why-i-left-pine64/ Comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32494659 > Supporting Manjaro has historically done very little to facilitate the development of the software stack which is necessary for these devices [Pinephone/Pinephone Pro] to work. In some cases the Manjaro involvement actually causes extra workload for the developers by shipping known broken v…
So distros like Manjaro should stop calling themselves "rolling release" distros and start calling themselves "nightly" distros, so everyone is aware of the potential instability? Is there any rolling release distro that already follows the suggestion of only distributing tagged releases?
> start calling themselves "nightly" distros
It's not a "nightly" distro, it's a "let's take patches that are unfinished, release them into the wild onto unsuspecting users, and let the upstream developers deal with it" distro.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Distributions like Manjaro should change their behavior and quit shipping unfinished patches.
What if the whole point is about shipping unfinished patches? But also this should mean that the buck stops with the distribution, not with the developers.
What is the use case for shipping unfinished patches?
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
So distros like Manjaro should stop calling themselves "rolling release" distros and start calling themselves "nightly" distros, so everyone is aware of the potential instability? Is there any rolling release distro that already follows the suggestion of only distributing tagged releases?
> start calling themselves "nightly" distros It's not a "nightly" distro, it's a "let's take patches that are unfinished, release them into the wild onto unsuspecting users, and let the upstream developers deal with it" distro.
Which, to be fair, is pretty much what all upstream developers have been asking for for years and years because getting bug reports for 50 different builds of 15 different versions of your software all with different disto provided patches is exhausting.
The software that actually has good release hygiene pales into comparison to the software that is actually more stable by just pulling from main.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#19Funny how I was instantly triggered as a SaaS maker by the title, ready to unroll in the comments and then quickly realized upon reading that I am not the audience here and the title does make a lot of sense for the intended audience :) Unexpected self-calibration completed. Nice.
Many startups wouldn't ever be able to get started under a restriction like that.
Re: Do not ship work in progress: An open letter
#20But then again, free and open source licenses enable everyone to do any modifications for any purpose whatsoever. That's the whole point. I would like it if the developers quit being patronizing towards people exercising their rights under those licenses. Yes, don't ship it, don't theme my app. We all heard you. Some people choose to not care, and that's okay. Those same licenses also disclaim any warranty, so the bu…
This is completely missing the forest for the trees. Just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it's a good idea. When a distro maintainer includes half baked patches for some third party software and the end user then has an issue with it, you can be sure they're gonna reach out to the software maintainers, not to the distro. By the time the back and forth helps everyone figure out that the problem is the version the distro packaged you've created a lot of useless noise and wasted plenty of time.