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School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

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Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#11

Post by qball »

ivraatiems wrote: post #3

American schools are so authoritarian, it's no wonder we are having such a problem preserving faith in our system of democracy in the United States. In public schools, the word of unelected random adults is law, the rules are completely arbitrary, students have no right to privacy, no freedom of movement, sometimes not even control over how they dress or who they speak to. If an American public school was a country,…

>the word of unelected random adults is law, the rules are completely arbitrary, students have no right to privacy, no freedom of movement, sometimes not even control over how they dress or who they speak to.

Or in other words, no different than Western society in general post-March 2020.

>we would structure our education system to reflect its alleged values

By our revealed preferences, the education system is a perfect reflection of our values.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#12

Post by LinuxBender »

anakaine wrote: post #5
LinuxBender wrote: post #2

I don't have a smart phone but surely there must be an app that creates a fake text messaging UI and locks the real messages behind a unique password?

Or, you know, you don't hide stuff and pretend the problem doesn't exist, but instead fix the issue. The kids have a right to due process, and to privacy as they are, after all, human. What is required here is for the adult parents, and students to push back together and to let the school know that this is unequivocally a bad approach. The author points out that in different words that if the school is worried about…

I am a pragmatic minimalist. First I find a work around then I work on the root cause. Changing the policy or actions of a school district can take time. Installing a work around, assuming one exists, is a quick mitigation that parents can teach their kids. We might not agree but that is just how I operate.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#13

Post by iron2disulfide »

carom wrote: post #6
ivraatiems wrote: post #3

American schools are so authoritarian, it's no wonder we are having such a problem preserving faith in our system of democracy in the United States. In public schools, the word of unelected random adults is law, the rules are completely arbitrary, students have no right to privacy, no freedom of movement, sometimes not even control over how they dress or who they speak to. If an American public school was a country,…

I almost got kicked out of school over a computer related issue. I refused to admit to it and they threatened to call the police. It honestly would have been preferable as the police have due process. Kids reading this, don't give them a confession, police or school admins, take the 5th. Don't Talk to the Police - https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE They want to take your money or put you in a cage.

I almost got kicked out because I "looked like" someone who had vandalized something or other the day before. They pulled me out of class, called me names, made me sit in their little sad office (thus missing more class) and tried to get me to write a written confession. I refused and they said they would "prosecute me to the full extent of the law". The next day I was exonerated with no explanation given.

The two fully-grown adults who ran the security office were former police; judging by the 20+ department badges proudly displayed on their back wall, it looks like they'd been kicked out of every department. One wonders why!

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#15

Post by newaccount2021 »

anakaine wrote: post #5
LinuxBender wrote: post #2

I don't have a smart phone but surely there must be an app that creates a fake text messaging UI and locks the real messages behind a unique password?

Or, you know, you don't hide stuff and pretend the problem doesn't exist, but instead fix the issue. The kids have a right to due process, and to privacy as they are, after all, human. What is required here is for the adult parents, and students to push back together and to let the school know that this is unequivocally a bad approach. The author points out that in different words that if the school is worried about…

> The kids have a right to due process, and to privacy as they are, after all, human

The word "privacy" does not appear in the Constitution - you have no explicit right to privacy in the US

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#16

Post by Someone1234 »

Let me provide a common hypothetical:

- A student is being bullied. This bullying is happening using social media and or text messages. These messages are being sent at various times pseudo-anonymously but there's strong reason to know who it is.

Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Is it the police? Using what law/powers? Are social workers empowered? We're clearly not ok with the school doing it.

So is bullying that happens outside of school hours just a free-for-all? I'm genuinely asking. It is fine if everyone agrees that schools shouldn't and that it is authoritarian to do so, but then who exactly is the authority? If police are, then when the police slap handcuffs on a K-12 kid, everyone loses their mind about that too and asks "why is this a police matter?!" "Why are we criminalizing young people?!"

I'm not saying I have all the answers: Because I absolutely do not. But I am saying people need to think about the bigger picture about how this works and who is responsible for what.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#17

Post by tomrod »

Someone1234 wrote: post #16

Let me provide a common hypothetical: - A student is being bullied. This bullying is happening using social media and or text messages. These messages are being sent at various times pseudo-anonymously but there's strong reason to know who it is. Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Is it the police? Using what law/powers? Are social workers empowered? We're clearly not ok with the school d…

> Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this?

Parents, typically?

Police once it becomes harassment or assault (or threat of).

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#18

Post by djbusby »

tomrod wrote: post #17
Someone1234 wrote: post #16

Let me provide a common hypothetical: - A student is being bullied. This bullying is happening using social media and or text messages. These messages are being sent at various times pseudo-anonymously but there's strong reason to know who it is. Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Is it the police? Using what law/powers? Are social workers empowered? We're clearly not ok with the school d…

> Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Parents, typically? Police once it becomes harassment or assault (or threat of).

Parents are not reliable. It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you".

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#19

Post by ivraatiems »

qball wrote: post #11
ivraatiems wrote: post #3

American schools are so authoritarian, it's no wonder we are having such a problem preserving faith in our system of democracy in the United States. In public schools, the word of unelected random adults is law, the rules are completely arbitrary, students have no right to privacy, no freedom of movement, sometimes not even control over how they dress or who they speak to. If an American public school was a country,…

>the word of unelected random adults is law, the rules are completely arbitrary, students have no right to privacy, no freedom of movement, sometimes not even control over how they dress or who they speak to. Or in other words, no different than Western society in general post-March 2020. >we would structure our education system to reflect its alleged values By our revealed preferences, the education system is a perf…

> Or in other words, no different than Western society in general post-March 2020.

Um... no? You need to provide more justification for that statement. (And a vague not towards COVID precautions isn't gonna do it.)

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#20

Post by imapeopleperson »

tomrod wrote: post #17
Someone1234 wrote: post #16

Let me provide a common hypothetical: - A student is being bullied. This bullying is happening using social media and or text messages. These messages are being sent at various times pseudo-anonymously but there's strong reason to know who it is. Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Is it the police? Using what law/powers? Are social workers empowered? We're clearly not ok with the school d…

> Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Parents, typically? Police once it becomes harassment or assault (or threat of).

Bullying is harassment
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