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Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

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Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#11

Post by pdntspa »

I recently started a side new project in Java targetting GraalVM with language version 17.

Aside from Java's innate finickyness, it has been an unexpected pleasure. I think a lot of it has to do with its static typing (I typically work in dynamic languages, and it's nice knowing that if the program compiles it likely works), and how simple the language keeps its primitives.

But you need really good tooling to use it, like a powerful IDE with good autocompletion and refactor support. It is way too verbose to type everything out yourself, and the verbosity means manually refactoring takes lots of changes around the program to manifest.

The sheer amount of code out there to import is immense, there seem to be libraries for anything and everything!

So far, it seems like the time I lose to its pickiness, I gain back with IDE features, static typing, and the ease of understanding it (because it is so verbose).

I'm also not hot on how it seems to steer everything into a factory pattern, but so far I've been able to avoid that for most things.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#12

Post by [deleted] »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #10
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

Whoever invented the car analogy should pay for what they did.

[deleted]

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#13

Post by jgust »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #10
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

Whoever invented the car analogy should pay for what they did.

Bagging on car analogies is like driving a Hellcat, it's not practical.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#14

Post by ramesh31 »

thex10 wrote: post #6

Being taught intro Java in high school (mid 2000s for me) was excruciatingly boring and caused me to write off majoring in computer science or working as a programmer. Today I'm a software engineer with experience in JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir... maybe it's time for me to give Java another try.

>Today I'm a software engineer with experience in JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir... maybe it's time for me to give Java another try.

Nah. If you have to use it, Java's really not that bad. But I would never choose it for a personal project. Its' strengths are in all of the concerns that come with enterprise development.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#15

Post by dymk »

vbezhenar wrote: post #9
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what was meant. With Loom Java will hopefully not have the same function split as languages like JavaScript (or C# for that matter) where you have to add lots of async/await everywhere; and instead will have something like Go (where everything is async). https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-...

Async stuff in JavaScript light years ahead of Java's Future madness. Loom might help but I'm not optimistic about it. For example Spring already kind of deprecated blocking http web client and new reactive WebClient is terrible. Will they create yet another BlockingWebClient? No they'll ask you to call `block` everywhere and write reactive nonsense filters if you need to enhance it. Spring is worst thing happened wi…

That may be true, but JavaScript forces you to bisect your libraries (and functions) into Those that Understand Async and Those That Don't [0]. There appears to be no path forward if you want to avoid that.

It's very difficult to write generic, reusable higher-order code that shouldn't care if it's doing a sync or async operation. Java at least is building a foundation in the right direction.

[0] - https://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-...

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#16

Post by [deleted] »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #10
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

Whoever invented the car analogy should pay for what they did.

[deleted]

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#17

Post by rco8786 »

thex10 wrote: post #6

Being taught intro Java in high school (mid 2000s for me) was excruciatingly boring and caused me to write off majoring in computer science or working as a programmer. Today I'm a software engineer with experience in JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir... maybe it's time for me to give Java another try.

It's not. Java has slightly improved since that time, for sure, but you're not missing anything.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#18

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

What does that make Scala? A RAV4?

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#19

Post by kaba0 »

falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

I don’t know, probably some truck would be a better analog. It ain’t sexy, but it was made to be a blue collar language, and it is the one that ships cargo nigh everywhere.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#20

Post by afandian »

thex10 wrote: post #6

Being taught intro Java in high school (mid 2000s for me) was excruciatingly boring and caused me to write off majoring in computer science or working as a programmer. Today I'm a software engineer with experience in JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir... maybe it's time for me to give Java another try.

Try Kotlin. I love it. Feels like the best bits of Clojure, Ruby, Python and Java.
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