How to Build a Computer Model of God • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#11

Post by hasenj » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

> Despite my desire to accept religious teachings, I am constantly prevented by a simple fact: no one has found any physical evidence of something like a soul, or any mechanism which might enable a persistent consciousness beyond our current brain.

For a minute, forget about "persisting beyond death".

Consider consciousness, is there any conceptual model at all of how it arises purely out of the known physical laws?

I can imagine building a computer with strong-AI and I see no reason - what so ever - to assume that it may possess any form of consciousness. Given all that we know about how the physical world works, and how computers work, there's no reason to assume that some particular software configuration will give rise to subjective consciousness within a computer.

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#12

Post by wbhart » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

I don't understand how your model hopes to capture any of the essential features of God as known to academic philosophers. You mention Godel incompleteness, but this only applies to sets of axioms which can be generated algorithmically. Furthermore, pure logic reveals that a transcendental first cause must be eternal, changeless (without the universe), non-physical, most likely having a mind with free will, etc. Your model fails to capture any of these essential features. In fact, I agree with the poster who says that you should reason about God, rather than try to model Him. Naturally my reason leads me to different inescapable conclusions than his.

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#13

Post by euroclydon » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:42 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #8

"Like most people, questions about the existence of God and all things spiritual plague me frequently. I want to believe in such things, especially when it comes to continuity of my consciousness. I don’t like the idea of disappearing when I die." One way to address this is to deal with these thoughts rather than entering a philosophical rat hole of trying to simulate our existence and find an analogy to the computer…

Great point up to the last sentance which, whether you intended to or not, draws a line between the worlds major religions and quasi-endorses those on one side.

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#14

Post by icebraining » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:42 PM UTC

padobson wrote: post #5

What I admire most about the author is the honest search for Truth. It is a rare individual that can approach this problem while relinquishing their biases. I can't count myself among their ranks. It seems the majority of people, believers and non-believers alike, tend to come to a decision about God after about an afternoon of thinking about it, at most. And really, what philosophical question posed to us could be m…

Personally, not only do I not fall on this problem in any way, as I question the actual validity of it;

Firstly, there can't be a single "Question of God", since there's no single coherent definition of "God."

Secondly, if we define God as an entity which is ultimately undetectable and unfalsifiable, does the question of its existence really mean anything? It may be an interesting thought problem, but trying to answer it leads nowhere.

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#15

Post by icebraining » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:44 PM UTC

wbhart wrote: post #12

I don't understand how your model hopes to capture any of the essential features of God as known to academic philosophers. You mention Godel incompleteness, but this only applies to sets of axioms which can be generated algorithmically. Furthermore, pure logic reveals that a transcendental first cause must be eternal, changeless (without the universe), non-physical, most likely having a mind with free will, etc. Your…

most likely having a mind with free will

What does that even mean outside of the physical universe?

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#16

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:44 PM UTC

wbhart wrote: post #12

I don't understand how your model hopes to capture any of the essential features of God as known to academic philosophers. You mention Godel incompleteness, but this only applies to sets of axioms which can be generated algorithmically. Furthermore, pure logic reveals that a transcendental first cause must be eternal, changeless (without the universe), non-physical, most likely having a mind with free will, etc. Your…

[deleted]

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#17

Post by DougN7 » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:47 PM UTC

kristaps wrote: post #10

padobson wrote: post #5

What I admire most about the author is the honest search for Truth. It is a rare individual that can approach this problem while relinquishing their biases. I can't count myself among their ranks. It seems the majority of people, believers and non-believers alike, tend to come to a decision about God after about an afternoon of thinking about it, at most. And really, what philosophical question posed to us could be m…

What does it matter if the answer cannot be known? If the question cannot be answered than "spending a significant amount of time deciding" is just waste.

What if the answer can be known? Several people in the world and throughout history claim to _know_ the answer through physical experiences. They are easy to dismiss as crazy, but what IF they've discovered HOW to search? Some things just can't be measured by physical apparatus (like love for example).

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#18

Post by icebraining » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:49 PM UTC

hasenj wrote: post #11

> Despite my desire to accept religious teachings, I am constantly prevented by a simple fact: no one has found any physical evidence of something like a soul, or any mechanism which might enable a persistent consciousness beyond our current brain. For a minute, forget about "persisting beyond death". Consider consciousness, is there any conceptual model at all of how it arises purely out of the known physical laws?…

Define consciousness.

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#19

Post by icebraining » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 2:52 PM UTC

DougN7 wrote: post #17

kristaps wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter if the answer cannot be known? If the question cannot be answered than "spending a significant amount of time deciding" is just waste.

What if the answer can be known? Several people in the world and throughout history claim to _know_ the answer through physical experiences. They are easy to dismiss as crazy, but what IF they've discovered HOW to search? Some things just can't be measured by physical apparatus (like love for example).

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Biological_ba...

Re: How to Build a Computer Model of God

#20

Post by eggnet » Tue, Nov 15, 2011, 3:02 PM UTC

euroclydon wrote: post #13

jgrahamc wrote: post #8

"Like most people, questions about the existence of God and all things spiritual plague me frequently. I want to believe in such things, especially when it comes to continuity of my consciousness. I don’t like the idea of disappearing when I die." One way to address this is to deal with these thoughts rather than entering a philosophical rat hole of trying to simulate our existence and find an analogy to the computer…

Great point up to the last sentance which, whether you intended to or not, draws a line between the worlds major religions and quasi-endorses those on one side.

What major religion doesn't endorse good deeds?