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So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

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Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#11

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

nivertech wrote: post #10
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see it's quite prevalent: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-01-20/contra... In my experience they operate with 100s of external partners. You will find a Faang engineering team with maybe 1-3 internal devs, and 5-10 sub-contracted. It's a bit frustrating because you're expected to do same level engineering work for maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of the pay.

That's not about SW devs, more about data entry / dataset labeling / "turkers". I did saw something that you described long time ago at a multinational company, where the employees were mostly managers and team leads, and most devs were contractors. But they gradually moved to a model were they have R&D centers in a lower cost regions were the developers are hired as local employees. Advantages of hiring SW devs/engi…

> elasticity

these are human beings you're talking about.

> most contractors (i.e. those hired via agency, not self-employed) see employee status as a coveted promotion

there are non-hire agreements between vendor and the clients.

whatever kind of euphemistic spin people want to put on it, it's a form of exploitation.

Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#12

Post by bl4ckm0r3 »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #3

Most of that made sense apart from the last paragraph. Don't most engineering managers get paid more than most IC engineers? Doesn't the move to management progress all the way to the C-suite? If so, then how is moving to management a lateral move?

> Don't most engineering managers get paid more than most IC engineers? Doesn't the move to management progress all the way to the C-suite? If so, then how is moving to management a lateral move?

> Don't most engineering managers get paid more than most IC engineers? Nope, about the same if not less!

> Doesn't the move to management progress all the way to the C-suite? Also the IC part can take you there (Managers have a hard time becoming CTOs)

> If so, then how is moving to management a lateral move? Because it's a different role (in most companies) and there's no direct connection between technical level and people management

Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#13

Post by nivertech »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #11
nivertech wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not about SW devs, more about data entry / dataset labeling / "turkers". I did saw something that you described long time ago at a multinational company, where the employees were mostly managers and team leads, and most devs were contractors. But they gradually moved to a model were they have R&D centers in a lower cost regions were the developers are hired as local employees. Advantages of hiring SW devs/engi…

> elasticity these are human beings you're talking about. > most contractors (i.e. those hired via agency, not self-employed) see employee status as a coveted promotion there are non-hire agreements between vendor and the clients. whatever kind of euphemistic spin people want to put on it, it's a form of exploitation.

> these are human beings you're talking about.

I know, I was a contractor, and I think I'm mostly human being.

> there are non-hire agreements between vendor and the clients.

Large companies have a lot of leverage on agencies supplying contractors (I myself run one in the past). They dictate the margins and after which period they can hire the people supplied by the agencies. I think it's about the same cost as paying a headhunter.

As a rule usually the larger company dictates the contract terms to the smaller one.

Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#14

Post by vlucas »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #3

Most of that made sense apart from the last paragraph. Don't most engineering managers get paid more than most IC engineers? Doesn't the move to management progress all the way to the C-suite? If so, then how is moving to management a lateral move?

Moved to manager track ~2 years ago from IC, and from what I have seen, yes. Mangers typically make a bit more than the equivalent IC role. The pay bands are slightly higher, so you probably make ~5-20% more for the same "level" as a manager than you do as an IC.

Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#15

Post by dominotw »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #3

Most of that made sense apart from the last paragraph. Don't most engineering managers get paid more than most IC engineers? Doesn't the move to management progress all the way to the C-suite? If so, then how is moving to management a lateral move?

exactly!!

No one ever seems to be answer this question. You are agreeing to work for less if you choose to stay IC. Thats the truth.

Re: So, you want to become an Engineering Manager?

#16

Post by dominotw »

mandeepj wrote: post #5
silent1mezzo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of newer tech companies it's more of a lateral move at the senior level (e.g. SE3 == EM1). I've worked at a few companies now where I've managed engineers who make more than I do. It's a different set of skills, you're specializing in people vs code. Companies that stack management on top of IC are basically forcing their best engineers to either go into management or leave for a company that doesn't do this…

> In a lot of newer tech companies it's more of a lateral move at the senior level Not really. FAANGs - and few more - have been doing for a time longer than I know of. https://qr.ae/pv58mp > Companies that stack management on top of IC are basically forcing their best engineers to either go into management or leave for a company that doesn't do this. Again, not really! Amazon does stack rank and they can't afford to…

>Not really. FAANGs - and few more - have been doing for a time longer than I know of.

I work at a faang and managers at the same level make more more money, you can easily confirm this on levels.fyi.

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