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A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

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Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#11

Post by TylerE »

allears wrote: post #3
gwern wrote: post #2

"The fallout of the MoFi revelation has thrown the audiophile community into something of an existential crisis. The quality of digitized music has long been criticized because of how much data was stripped out of files so MP3s could fit on mobile devices. But these days, with the right equipment, digital recordings can be so good they can fool even the best ears. Many of MoFi’s now-exposed records were on Fremer and…

That's a little simplistic. You can certainly tell the difference between a good analog recording played on a high quality system vs. an MP3. But once you throw enough samples and bit depth at it (more than are on a standard CD), you get quality that's equivalent to, or better than, most analog media.

I suspect the real reason is that vinyl largely escaped the ravages of the loudness war, because physics.

(And also much of the digital gear in the 80s when the first wave of CD releases was pretty crappy)

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#12

Post by jrajav »

allears wrote: post #3
gwern wrote: post #2

"The fallout of the MoFi revelation has thrown the audiophile community into something of an existential crisis. The quality of digitized music has long been criticized because of how much data was stripped out of files so MP3s could fit on mobile devices. But these days, with the right equipment, digital recordings can be so good they can fool even the best ears. Many of MoFi’s now-exposed records were on Fremer and…

That's a little simplistic. You can certainly tell the difference between a good analog recording played on a high quality system vs. an MP3. But once you throw enough samples and bit depth at it (more than are on a standard CD), you get quality that's equivalent to, or better than, most analog media.

44100hz sample rate is enough to reproduce well above the highest frequency even young humans can hear, and 16 bits of depth is enough for 96db of dynamic range, enough to make the noise floor of any consumer system totally inaudible.

Standard CDs might not be good enough for archival and further production work (where you also need wiggle room for further processing or format changes), but they have plenty of headroom to reproduce any kind of sound for playback purposes. Any more is just placebo.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#13

Post by wrycoder »

kstrauser wrote: post #5
gwern wrote: post #2

"The fallout of the MoFi revelation has thrown the audiophile community into something of an existential crisis. The quality of digitized music has long been criticized because of how much data was stripped out of files so MP3s could fit on mobile devices. But these days, with the right equipment, digital recordings can be so good they can fool even the best ears. Many of MoFi’s now-exposed records were on Fremer and…

That whole line of thinking just blows me away. It's possible to accurately sample and reproduce any vinyl recording in the digital realm. It's absolutely not possible to accurately record every digital recording onto vinyl. For instance, it's not hard at all to make bass so loud that it causes the needle to leap out of the track, or treble so high that the needle can't accurately track the high frequency vibrations.…

The thing I miss with the Apple audio chain is a user-controlled equalizer. With my hearing issues, I really need to boost treble, and I prefer to boost bass. I haven't yet discovered a way to do that. Apple thinks that flat is best, and so should you, apparently.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#15

Post by bayindirh »

TylerE wrote: post #11
allears wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little simplistic. You can certainly tell the difference between a good analog recording played on a high quality system vs. an MP3. But once you throw enough samples and bit depth at it (more than are on a standard CD), you get quality that's equivalent to, or better than, most analog media.

I suspect the real reason is that vinyl largely escaped the ravages of the loudness war, because physics. (And also much of the digital gear in the 80s when the first wave of CD releases was pretty crappy)

And the standard equalizer you need to apply during record/playback of the medium.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#16

Post by jrajav »

kstrauser wrote: post #5
gwern wrote: post #2

"The fallout of the MoFi revelation has thrown the audiophile community into something of an existential crisis. The quality of digitized music has long been criticized because of how much data was stripped out of files so MP3s could fit on mobile devices. But these days, with the right equipment, digital recordings can be so good they can fool even the best ears. Many of MoFi’s now-exposed records were on Fremer and…

That whole line of thinking just blows me away. It's possible to accurately sample and reproduce any vinyl recording in the digital realm. It's absolutely not possible to accurately record every digital recording onto vinyl. For instance, it's not hard at all to make bass so loud that it causes the needle to leap out of the track, or treble so high that the needle can't accurately track the high frequency vibrations.…

Most of the time people will argue that vinyl has "warmth" and this makes it subjectively better. This is true, but it's actually because of the pleasing distortion record players add to the music. Being distortion, even if it improves your listening experience (and this depends on genre, though it generally does), it is certainly objectively worse in terms of accurate reproduction.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#17

Post by bitcurious »

wrycoder wrote: post #13
kstrauser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole line of thinking just blows me away. It's possible to accurately sample and reproduce any vinyl recording in the digital realm. It's absolutely not possible to accurately record every digital recording onto vinyl. For instance, it's not hard at all to make bass so loud that it causes the needle to leap out of the track, or treble so high that the needle can't accurately track the high frequency vibrations.…

The thing I miss with the Apple audio chain is a user-controlled equalizer. With my hearing issues, I really need to boost treble, and I prefer to boost bass. I haven't yet discovered a way to do that. Apple thinks that flat is best, and so should you, apparently.

On iOS, settings>music>EQ has some presets you could try. Not quite the same as custom eq but might be better than flat.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#18

Post by masklinn »

bayindirh wrote: post #10
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(more than are on a standard CD) Sorry, but CD (16bit PCM) has better dynamic range than vinyl. The best vinyl systems can have dynamic range of around 80dB. 16bit PCM is 96dB.

Unless it’s brick-wall normalized during mastering.

Sure but that's got nothing to do with the CD itself. Except in that you would not be able to brick-wall a vynil at all so you don't.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#19

Post by kstrauser »

bayindirh wrote: post #10
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(more than are on a standard CD) Sorry, but CD (16bit PCM) has better dynamic range than vinyl. The best vinyl systems can have dynamic range of around 80dB. 16bit PCM is 96dB.

Unless it’s brick-wall normalized during mastering.

That's a real thing, to be sure. The Loudness Wars have completely ruined any number of otherwise decent recordings. The worst I ever heard was Dropkick Murphys's "The Meanest of Times" which had the dynamic range of an air conditioner in Phoenix.

Still, you can always take a great analog recording, pipe it into a good ADC, and listen to that sample forever without degradation. I think almost everything can play FLACs now.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#20

Post by masklinn »

bayindirh wrote: post #7
allears wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little simplistic. You can certainly tell the difference between a good analog recording played on a high quality system vs. an MP3. But once you throw enough samples and bit depth at it (more than are on a standard CD), you get quality that's equivalent to, or better than, most analog media.

Telling this out loud upsets a lot of people, but I’m on the same boat with you. A good lossless album, regardless of the medium played through shows a significant difference in soundstage given the system can handle the resolution thrown at it when compared with a MP3/M4A file.

> Telling this out loud upsets a lot of people, but I’m on the same boat with you.

It "upsets a lot of people" in the same sense and for the same reason as telling them drinking alkaline water cures cancer.

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