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Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

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Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#11

Ah I miss the old Byte Magazine (like people miss the NES or PS1 etc). The ads looks completely insane with 2022 glasses on - who'd buy a random 64 KB ram extension for an S-100 bus? What was the market for this? Couldn't have been large.

The S-100 bus was popular with an early generation of machines with 8080 or Z-80 processors that ran CP/M, though there were a few counter examples.

By the time I started reading Byte at the public library (1980) there were a few computers that were mass market like the TRS-80, Apple ][, Commodore PET, TI-99/4A, etc. Mass market computers were talked about a lot in the editorial in Byte but Byte was also full of ads for more exotic machines aimed at OEMs, for instance to build a cash register system for a supermarket. Cromemco, for instance, advertised harder than anybody, but it was rare to see Cromemco and other exotics talked about in the articles.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#13
The second article in this issue of BYTE has a delightful mention of Logo (the programming language). On page 20, it says,

"LOGO is, up to surface structure, more or less equivalent to LISP."

It further says,

"The LOGO system supports two different (by no means disjoint) environments: the Turtle, Graphics and Musicbox world (ie: peripheral devices which are controlled by a command language) and the LISP world."

And then in a later bullet point on page 22,

"Our experiences, especially with young students, indicate that programming in LOGO may serve as a bridge between natural language communication and reasoning and the formal and abstract symbols and reasoning in mathematics and programming languages."

This bullet point ends with,

"Our findings can at least be partly explained by the cleanliness by which the basic computational ideas are embodied in LISP/LOGO."

In my own life, I was fortunate to have stumbled upon Logo as my first computer programming language. The simplicity and elegance of Logo had a powerful effect on me at a very young age. It immediately turned me into a computer programmer for life!

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#14
post #8

The first article in this issue of BYTE has a very interesting characterization of Lisp that I have not come across before. I mean, famous quotes like "Lisp is a programmable programming language" by John Foderaro and "The greatest single programming language ever designed" by Alan Kay are often mentioned in articles about Lisp. But in this issue of BYTE, the article "An Overview of LISP" by John Allen at page 10 has…

This exactly matches my thoughts. It seems that machine language and LISP are the only two languages (that i know anyway) where code and data are fundamentally the same kind of thing.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#15
post #13

The second article in this issue of BYTE has a delightful mention of Logo (the programming language). On page 20, it says, "LOGO is, up to surface structure, more or less equivalent to LISP." It further says, "The LOGO system supports two different (by no means disjoint ) environments: the Turtle, Graphics and Musicbox world (ie: peripheral devices which are controlled by a command language) and the LISP world." And…

People at MIT like Seymour Papert were aghast that BASIC became the dominant programming language for education in the 8-bit age, they were hoping they could push out LOGO as a new standard but it did not get a lot of traction.

Three years later Byte ran a special issue on LOGO which I thought was one of the best issues of Byte ever

https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-08

in particular it had some great reviews of LOGO implementations for different home computers some of which were pretty strange like the TRS-80 Coco and the TI-99/4A. It was very close to the cultural peak of the 1980s before Michael Jackson dropped off the charts, the Atari 2600 went down without being immediately replaced (unless you count the C-64), etc. Byte was a lively magazine so long as the market was split up between a wide range of computers but it never really found it's niche in a world dominated by the IBM PC at the high end and the C-64 at the low end.

Speaking of which, LISP never really caught on in the 8-bit era. This issue has some articles about how you would do so but it didn't seem to shoehorn so well into a tiny machine (like the 1k of RAM on the Sinclair ZX80) as BASIC did. From the viewpoint of a kid who just learned BASIC, FORTH seemed to offer a lot of what LISP did and it was very available, even if it was a few weeks of assembly coding to write a FORTH.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#16
post #9

Ah I miss the old Byte Magazine (like people miss the NES or PS1 etc). The ads looks completely insane with 2022 glasses on - who'd buy a random 64 KB ram extension for an S-100 bus? What was the market for this? Couldn't have been large.

Can you imagine cutting off the bottom 1/4 of a magazine page, writing your name and address on the order form, putting that in an envelope with a check and then waiting 6-8 weeks for your new memory card to show up in the mail?

Imagine? No. Remember? Yes.

And this in an era where there was no such thing as package tracking. You got your stuff when you got your stuff.

I've ordered a few things mail order this year because they were not available any other way. The wait doesn't bother me. Order confirmation comes when the bank tells me the check has been cashed. But the lack of package tracking causes mild anxiety.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#17
post #8

The first article in this issue of BYTE has a very interesting characterization of Lisp that I have not come across before. I mean, famous quotes like "Lisp is a programmable programming language" by John Foderaro and "The greatest single programming language ever designed" by Alan Kay are often mentioned in articles about Lisp. But in this issue of BYTE, the article "An Overview of LISP" by John Allen at page 10 has…

I have fond memories of Allen's book Anatomy of Lisp. I guess there are only historical reasons to read it now, but at the time it felt like an introduction to wizardry.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#18
post #13

The second article in this issue of BYTE has a delightful mention of Logo (the programming language). On page 20, it says, "LOGO is, up to surface structure, more or less equivalent to LISP." It further says, "The LOGO system supports two different (by no means disjoint ) environments: the Turtle, Graphics and Musicbox world (ie: peripheral devices which are controlled by a command language) and the LISP world." And…

People at MIT like Seymour Papert were aghast that BASIC became the dominant programming language for education in the 8-bit age, they were hoping they could push out LOGO as a new standard but it did not get a lot of traction. Three years later Byte ran a special issue on LOGO which I thought was one of the best issues of Byte ever https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-08 in particular it had some great rev…

Pegasus Lisp for the 6502 Apple II was pretty god - I really enjoyed it.

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#19
post #14
post #8

The first article in this issue of BYTE has a very interesting characterization of Lisp that I have not come across before. I mean, famous quotes like "Lisp is a programmable programming language" by John Foderaro and "The greatest single programming language ever designed" by Alan Kay are often mentioned in articles about Lisp. But in this issue of BYTE, the article "An Overview of LISP" by John Allen at page 10 has…

This exactly matches my thoughts. It seems that machine language and LISP are the only two languages (that i know anyway) where code and data are fundamentally the same kind of thing.

There are many languages that are dynamic and let you generate code and run it inside the program. For instance in Java you can generate bytecode for a class and run one of the methods. In FORTH you can write new "words" (roughly functions) that are the same as the built-in words.

It is mainly languages built around AOT compilation like C, Pascal, FORTRAN and such that completely separate code and data. (I guess though you can make a C program that writes a C program, runs "cc" on it, makes a shared object file, loads the library dynamically, and calls a function from it.)

Re: Byte Magazine: LISP (1979)

#20
post #13

The second article in this issue of BYTE has a delightful mention of Logo (the programming language). On page 20, it says, "LOGO is, up to surface structure, more or less equivalent to LISP." It further says, "The LOGO system supports two different (by no means disjoint ) environments: the Turtle, Graphics and Musicbox world (ie: peripheral devices which are controlled by a command language) and the LISP world." And…

My first experience programming was with a LOGO turtle in third grade. I remember the lab full of Apple IIs, and the joy of PEN DOWN, UP 10, PEN UP style commands.
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