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Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

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Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#11

Post by vbezhenar »

krembanan wrote: post #3

I think that for the average developer, these tools will soon be obsolete. For frontend applications, hosting services such as Vercel and Netlify gives a far superior DX. For backend, Vercel does the same, or other BaaS' like Supabase that gives you most you would need to create a fully fledged app with easy to use API's. The only downside I can tell, is the pricing, but compared to dev hours saved, it's probably a n…

The downside is vendor lock in. What will you do when vendor will ban your website?

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#12

Post by eandre »

pdimitar wrote: post #10
eandre wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difficult with backend is dealing with state. It's easy enough to provide a simple experience when dealing with stateless frontends, backends are a very different story. You're right that we need better tools. I'm the founder of Encore [1] which is all about bringing the simplicity of Vercel/Netlify to backend development. Not by substituting the backend for a BaaS but by building a developer experience hand-craf…

I'll definitely review your service but in the meantime you should know my desktop (macOS) Firefox is freaking out on your website and is scrolling it in a janky manner and it keeps one CPU core at 80% for good 30 seconds after switching away from the tab.

Oh, thanks very much for letting me know. We'll have a look.

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#13

Post by ancieque »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #4
BossingAround wrote: post #2

Kubernetes must probably be one of the most tutorialized pieces of SW out there. You want a "crash course" on the platform of your choice? You got it. You want it for the price of your choice? You got it. The docs are great [1] and offer even interactive parts [2]. There are a ton of good materials on youtube. There are Coursera and EdX courses, e.g. [3] from Google and [4] from Red Hat. There are a ton of Udemy cour…

To be fair. Just last night i was googling kubernetes and k3s tutorials. All of them on page 1 of SERPS are super simple and brilliant and ONLY show you how to add nodes to clusters. Ok now what ?? Ive drank the k-Koolaid signup for the newsletters but how do i get value from this 'thing' ??? When i code a webapp how do setup/config the db ? How do I do a regular LAMP app ? Lol i never thought i say this but i need a…

I would recommend Bret Fisher tutorials https://www.bretfisher.com/

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#14

Post by chrisandchris »

krembanan wrote: post #7
chii wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only downside I can tell, is the pricing, but compared to dev hours saved, it's probably a net benefit. dev hours is already paid - i say that a hosted service for an app is gonna cost even more than the dev in the long run.

You pay a premium to let your devs work on what matters, the actual product, not tinker with devops tools for hours on end on something that has already been solved. Something to keep in mind is that infrastructure code has to be updated and maintained as well, with services that gets handled for you. It would be interesting to see how much of a difference in price it would make over eg. a year.

I can give you the answer: it depends.

I'm hosting at a colocation for X bucks a month. Solely the RAM I have on my servers costs X bucks a month at AWS/Azure. Maintenance overhead is small, maybe a couple hours a month.

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#15

Post by vbezhenar »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #4
BossingAround wrote: post #2

Kubernetes must probably be one of the most tutorialized pieces of SW out there. You want a "crash course" on the platform of your choice? You got it. You want it for the price of your choice? You got it. The docs are great [1] and offer even interactive parts [2]. There are a ton of good materials on youtube. There are Coursera and EdX courses, e.g. [3] from Google and [4] from Red Hat. There are a ton of Udemy cour…

To be fair. Just last night i was googling kubernetes and k3s tutorials. All of them on page 1 of SERPS are super simple and brilliant and ONLY show you how to add nodes to clusters. Ok now what ?? Ive drank the k-Koolaid signup for the newsletters but how do i get value from this 'thing' ??? When i code a webapp how do setup/config the db ? How do I do a regular LAMP app ? Lol i never thought i say this but i need a…

All you need exists on kubernetes.io.

Start with https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/hello-minikube/ and proceed.

Read reference documentation on the same site whenever you need to dig somewhere.

It's awesome. You don't need any other websites. I was able to build a kubernetes cluster and right now deploying multi-service application and I have had enough technical information on this website alone.

As to answer your questions:

You can start with DB as an ordinary container in a statefulset deployment. It's similar to docker. You configure it with environment variables. Advanced approach is operators, but you don't need those for simple start.

Connection to DB is the same like docker. You use Kubernetes secrets instead of docker secrets and that's about it.

My message assumes that you're proficient with docker. If you're not, I suggest to first learning docker. May be you don't need Kubernetes for your scale at all. And if you do, most docker concepts make sense in Kubernetes anyway.

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#16

Post by goodpoint »

vbezhenar wrote: post #11
krembanan wrote: post #3

I think that for the average developer, these tools will soon be obsolete. For frontend applications, hosting services such as Vercel and Netlify gives a far superior DX. For backend, Vercel does the same, or other BaaS' like Supabase that gives you most you would need to create a fully fledged app with easy to use API's. The only downside I can tell, is the pricing, but compared to dev hours saved, it's probably a n…

The downside is vendor lock in. What will you do when vendor will ban your website?

Even better: we replace those millions of SLOC with something new and 100 times simpler.

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#17

Post by rawoke083600 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #15
rawoke083600 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair. Just last night i was googling kubernetes and k3s tutorials. All of them on page 1 of SERPS are super simple and brilliant and ONLY show you how to add nodes to clusters. Ok now what ?? Ive drank the k-Koolaid signup for the newsletters but how do i get value from this 'thing' ??? When i code a webapp how do setup/config the db ? How do I do a regular LAMP app ? Lol i never thought i say this but i need a…

All you need exists on kubernetes.io. Start with https://kubernetes.io/docs/tutorials/hello-minikube/ and proceed. Read reference documentation on the same site whenever you need to dig somewhere. It's awesome. You don't need any other websites. I was able to build a kubernetes cluster and right now deploying multi-service application and I have had enough technical information on this website alone. As to answer you…

Cool thanks will have a look.

Id be more interesting on where kubernetes (redundancy) fits into traditional redundancy ?

Examples:

1. Do i still need gluster/ceph or do i use the longhorn thing ?

2. Db replication? Do i use the usual solutions of master-slaves and clusters or does multiple k-nodes take that over ?

3. Webserver LB with failover ? Do i use LB from hosting vendor, haproxy or does kubernetes have its own thing ??

From what I can tell as a kubernetes-noob the value is: 1) Reproducibility 2) Reliability via redundancy 3) AutoScaling.

All of the abkve has to some degree a previous/current solution , so which do i give up/replace with kubernetes-tool ?

Sorry yes Im a k-noob

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#18

Post by xyzzy123 »

krembanan wrote: post #3

I think that for the average developer, these tools will soon be obsolete. For frontend applications, hosting services such as Vercel and Netlify gives a far superior DX. For backend, Vercel does the same, or other BaaS' like Supabase that gives you most you would need to create a fully fledged app with easy to use API's. The only downside I can tell, is the pricing, but compared to dev hours saved, it's probably a n…

For backend, if you have a platform that allows you to run arbitrary containers, you will need to have a way to express how they are connected together, how much resource they should get, which parts should receive traffic from the Internet and so on. Any solution will tend to have about the same inherent complexity as kube yamls, this seems to be an iron law of devops.

IMHO the thing you have to trade off to get simplicity is generality. I agree that's probably the right tradeoff for 90% of apps, whether that's BaaS, heroku-alikes, language specific hosting or whatever.

Cloud providers are definitely keen on the idea that your web framework and your cloud platform could basically become the same thing.

Re: Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, and AWS crash course series

#19

Post by synergy20 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #11
krembanan wrote: post #3

I think that for the average developer, these tools will soon be obsolete. For frontend applications, hosting services such as Vercel and Netlify gives a far superior DX. For backend, Vercel does the same, or other BaaS' like Supabase that gives you most you would need to create a fully fledged app with easy to use API's. The only downside I can tell, is the pricing, but compared to dev hours saved, it's probably a n…

The downside is vendor lock in. What will you do when vendor will ban your website?

not sure if IaC will help, I'm just started reading about it.

Indeed the cloud vendors are all lock-ins, something needs to be designed to mitigate the switching cost among cloud providers.

Each one has its own SDK and own complicated infrastructures, so far it seems impossible to switch once you started with any one of them.

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