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Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

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Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#11

Post by wmf »

samwillis wrote: post #7
jacquesm wrote: post #3

They did a pretty dumb thing and that's me being a supporter. I really wished they had thought a little longer before pulling that particular stunt.

Exactly, they should have reached out to the closed public libraries and come to an agreement where they lent out digital copies 1:1 of copies owned by closed libraries. It would have been an incredible initiative that could have become sustainable well past the pandemic.

they lent out digital copies 1:1 of copies owned by closed libraries

That would probably have triggered the same lawsuit. You cannot rent digital copies of physical works no matter how much sense it makes.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#12

Post by rwmj »

TekMol wrote: post #8

I never understood how the IA can get away with copying all those websites and all their content as if copyright did not exist. Can anybody enlighten me how they have not been sued into oblivion and sit in prison already?

Browsers copy and store websites as part of their normal functioning. If you didn't want your website to be copied and stored then maybe it was better not to put it up in the first place? Anyway the IA will remove everything with a very simple, automated text file placed in the root directory.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#13

Post by bencollier49 »

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

To be honest I love their computer games archive, but it boggles my mind that it's allowed to exist.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#14

Post by throwk8s »

rwmj wrote: post #12
TekMol wrote: post #8

I never understood how the IA can get away with copying all those websites and all their content as if copyright did not exist. Can anybody enlighten me how they have not been sued into oblivion and sit in prison already?

Browsers copy and store websites as part of their normal functioning. If you didn't want your website to be copied and stored then maybe it was better not to put it up in the first place? Anyway the IA will remove everything with a very simple, automated text file placed in the root directory.

> Anyway the IA will remove everything with a very simple, automated text file placed in the root directory.

What if the site is simply gone, or now belongs to someone else who is not the owner of the archived content?

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#15

Post by metadat »

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

The mission of preserving human culture is far more important than respecting rent-seeking copyright holders. At the end of the day, The Internet Archive has good intentions and is morally in the right.

The time has come to consider changing the laws to allow for truly fair use, especially for physical items scanned to digital (e.g. books), old video games, and more.

It's about selecting for the common good over the extremely low-value proposition of helping rent-seekers preserve an infinite zero-effort stream of income.

TIA is one of the best things to emerge from tech, all thanks to the tireless and complete dedication of the founder: Brewster Kahle.

I don't know if they still do it, but pre-pandemic they offered tours of their HQ in San Francisco. It was really cool to meet the team and see their setup, and an amazing opportunity to meet Brewster and hear the conviction in his voice as he described his vision for The Internet Archive. It's a very special thing.. imagine if it didn't exist? I am feeling tears coming just considering such a possible reality.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#16

Post by xwdv »

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

Ask for forgiveness not permission if you want to innovate.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#17

Post by misnome »

COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

It seems an especially dumb move because being sued was absolutely inevitable from the first announcement of this.

Presumably, even if they are hoping to change law with the case - it’s putting up the rest of IA’s (almost irreplaceably invaluable) mission as a gamble on whatever chances they think they have here.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#18

Post by thomascgalvin »

metadat wrote: post #15
COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

The mission of preserving human culture is far more important than respecting rent-seeking copyright holders. At the end of the day, The Internet Archive has good intentions and is morally in the right. The time has come to consider changing the laws to allow for truly fair use, especially for physical items scanned to digital (e.g. books), old video games, and more. It's about selecting for the common good over the…

You're not wrong, but being morally right has nothing to do with winning a lawsuit.

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#19

Post by annoyingnoob »

samwillis wrote: post #7
jacquesm wrote: post #3

They did a pretty dumb thing and that's me being a supporter. I really wished they had thought a little longer before pulling that particular stunt.

Exactly, they should have reached out to the closed public libraries and come to an agreement where they lent out digital copies 1:1 of copies owned by closed libraries. It would have been an incredible initiative that could have become sustainable well past the pandemic.

> they should have reached out to the closed public libraries

How exactly?

Re: Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit

#20

Post by BitwiseFool »

metadat wrote: post #15
COGlory wrote: post #6

So...they didn't think the law should apply so they just decided to ignore it? What were they expecting? How can they possibly expect to win this lawsuit? I hate copyright with all my soul but this is just stupid. You can't just decide to take the law into your own hand. This is just a waste of money and effort.

The mission of preserving human culture is far more important than respecting rent-seeking copyright holders. At the end of the day, The Internet Archive has good intentions and is morally in the right. The time has come to consider changing the laws to allow for truly fair use, especially for physical items scanned to digital (e.g. books), old video games, and more. It's about selecting for the common good over the…

If libraries hadn't already been in existence since antiquity, copyright holders would never have allowed them to exist.
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