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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

spiegel.de

11–20 of 423 posts

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#11
post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

Right, starting WW3 by entering the theater would not have been "insanity". Obviously.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#12
post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

"Let's not get nuked" isn't moralistic or insane, in my book.

A hot war between EU/NATO and Russia is not something anyone should advocate for, nor is letting Russia just take countries it wants on the edges of Europe. The current situation is a direct result of ignoring a long pattern of Russian aggression and expansionism in Georgia, Moldova, and Crimea.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#16
post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Natural gas cannot be replaced by nuclear energy (or any other source of electricity) for many applications, at least not in the short term. For example here in Germany, many homes use gas boilers (heaters) for heating space and water. You would need to rebuild a lot of infrastructure to use electricity (which Germany plans to do, but obviously this will take years if not decades).

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#17

Given that Germany ignored decades of warnings about this, let them take the brunt of the cuts.

Technically they didn't ignore the warnings, they actively laughed at them: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249?...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#18
To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class people into poverty/problems which is the majority of the population.

Furthermore gas is used in almost every chemical process in some way or another - it's difficult to just disable a single industry because the network effects are not really known.

So this will be a shitshow because industry/lobbyists groups and regulation will probably collide at the expense of the tax-payer.

Still me and all of my friends are still fine with this. There is no alternative anyway - Russia is a fascist totalitarian state that declared war against Europe and is using gas as a weapon. After reading https://osce.usmission.gov/response-to-moscow-mechanism-repo... as just as a single example I just hope we can cut off Russian gas/oil as fast as possible.

edit: Looks like I was wrong on the burning of gas for electricity: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?stacking=s...

edit: Damn'it just took a quick look at the calculation of the whole house and took a wrong number it's not 1600€/year but 700€/year - still triple that and it's still a problem.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no lng supply possible for Europe. you can frack as much as you want and ship as much as you want. the next 4 quarters will decide about the downfall of Europe (and ultimately the US).

There won't be a downfall.

Oh there probably will be, but the timing is very much in question.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#20
The whole Ukraine/Russia conflict underscores how poor the strategic position of Europe and the US is with respect to Europe.

We’ve been phoning it in since the Clinton era and assuming that “norms” and oligarchs would keep Russia at bay. End of the day they got tanks, nukes and are learning what they can get away with.

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