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Is the United States Exceptional?

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Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#11

Post by srvmshr »

US definitely has exceptional successes, but there are so many systemic flaws which other countries may or may not have, and where US could vastly improve.

* High medical costs

* Highest maternal mortality among developed countries

* Highest income gaps

* High education cost & the vicious circle of college debt.

* Increasing trends of bankruptcy & paycheck-to-paycheck sustenance.

* Lack of public transportation issues in most places

* Very oil dependent economy.

* Gun violence. So many lives needlessly lost every year.

* Growing mental health & opiod crisis

* Lack of public awareness about current affairs (& to some extent apathy even)

* Waning trust in judiciary & in parallel the rise of the rich oligarchy

* Interference in politics of other countries

* Equality of diversity (in true sense) is still to be achieved given racial profiling persists

* The extent of personal freedom without state agencies keeping track of activities.

It definitely has successes but there is a long road to being a model nation. But US as a nation has demonstrated the capacity to overcome odds in fortitude. There is hope - but a sense of cautious hope

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#12

Post by epolanski »

The biggest issue we Europeans have with the american exceptionalism are the implications on foreign politics.

Victoria Nuland giving cookies at the Maidan square and appointing the post Yanukovich government? US can.

Paying italian Mafia to kill socialist workers in Italy? US can.

Having US drunk air force peoppe kill 30 civillians in Italy because they wanted to see how low they coukd fly and sending them back home without charges? US can.

Toppling governments, supporting and funding coups in half the world? US can.

Military actions around the world against UN, which include bs wars like Iraq? US can.

Spying on all the world,including the german chancellor, inserting back doors in routers, processors and civilian infrastructure? US can.

US exceptionalism is a dangerous thinking, and what is more worrying is how openly US leaders talk about it. I vividly remember a 4th july speech by Obama with a 10 minutes rant on how US is exceptional and can do things other can't.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#13

Post by starkd »

mikkergp wrote: post #8
starkd wrote: post #5

This is a common misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'exceptional'. The origins of the phrase "American exceptionalism" had nothing to do with greatness or thinking one country is better than another. It is exceptional only in that the country was concieved as an exception to the rule of where its power ultimately comes from. The normal foundation for the state was upon a divinely anointed monarchy. America w…

While this may be true originally or historically, I don’t think it’s what most people today mean colloquially when they say American Exceptionalism, and I think there’s a large group of people that agree more with the colloquial definition.

Yes, I understand that. But it's very different from its origins. When America was founded, it consisted of mostly farmers. Basic agriculture. It produced nothing extraodinary and in relation to other countries. Britain was the financial powerhouse of the world, and there were no monoliths present. I just wanted to point out how language has been distorted to make the notion of exceptionalism something that it is not and never was.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#14

Post by palmetieri2000 »

The logic of "The US is the greatest if you likes X things and bad if you prefer Y" is poor because it can be applied to anything. Colombia during Pablo Escobar's time was probably considered pretty great if you were a Narco Trafficker.

The article entirely misses the problem non-US people have with the US faffing on about greatness or its exceptionality.

Which is that individuals from the US seem to see this as an indication of their own superiority and develop a parochial point of view regardless of their almost total insignificance to the accomplishments of the US.

Most US citizens have done precisely nothing to increase the 'greatness' of the US other than pay their taxes (which they oppose doing). Many non-US citizens have done much more, the success of the USA is the result of a combined effort from many countries but the parochialism of many Americans refuses to acknowledge this.

Even if your country is exceptional, which is immeasurable nonsense (I'm sure every country is exceptional in some ways), you should not take pride from this because you have done incredibly little to achieve it.

I expect precisely 0 Americans to agree with me, but my PoV is not uncommon in Australia at least.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#15

Post by mikkergp »

Can you really divorce greatness from goodness?

I mean you can, but the author seems to go back and forth in how he places value on bigness. The sentiment that we have the most research institutions does not seem to be presented as valueless, and yet we also talk about the replicability crisis in science.

McDonald’s is the largest restaurant chain in the world, does that mean American cuisine is the greatest?

I think I agree with the overarching sentiment of the piece: that America is unquestionably exceptional given a neutral definition of the word exceptional, but may conclude we are less driven by greatness and more driven by dominance at all cost.

And this is overly critical, America is obviously not do bad things 100% of the time, in fact I would probably say America is equal parts "Do great things" "Do, even if there's no evidence it's good" and "Gosh, no one has ever been inhumane enough to charge money for THAT before"

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#16

Post by WalterBright »

A nation founded on the principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is indeed exceptional.

The results have been exceptional, too.

The US does indeed have plenty of problems, but those problems are usually traceable to neglecting those founding principles.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#18

Post by starkd »

oblio wrote: post #9
starkd wrote: post #5

This is a common misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'exceptional'. The origins of the phrase "American exceptionalism" had nothing to do with greatness or thinking one country is better than another. It is exceptional only in that the country was concieved as an exception to the rule of where its power ultimately comes from. The normal foundation for the state was upon a divinely anointed monarchy. America w…

The thing is, the common misunderstanding is one of the core American tenets. It's one of the core American myths which is directly transmitted through American education, and the vast majority of Americans believe it. Even those that say they don't will recoil when you disprove or contest some key aspects, it's a very ingrained idea. Everyone wants to be part of an exceptional nation because then there's a chance th…

Well, any successful nation cannot be successful without believing in itself. True.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#19

Post by hathawsh »

starkd wrote: post #5

This is a common misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'exceptional'. The origins of the phrase "American exceptionalism" had nothing to do with greatness or thinking one country is better than another. It is exceptional only in that the country was concieved as an exception to the rule of where its power ultimately comes from. The normal foundation for the state was upon a divinely anointed monarchy. America w…

The second paragraph of the Wikipedia article [1] about the term agrees with you, although I think you stated the idea more clearly than Wikipedia currently does. You could propose some enhancements.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#20

Post by throwaway5959 »

srvmshr wrote: post #11

US definitely has exceptional successes, but there are so many systemic flaws which other countries may or may not have, and where US could vastly improve. * High medical costs * Highest maternal mortality among developed countries * Highest income gaps * High education cost & the vicious circle of college debt. * Increasing trends of bankruptcy & paycheck-to-paycheck sustenance. * Lack of public transportation issue…

Ok, now do positives.
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