Toyota post tsunami has gone into the trash, can confirm. Keep your < 2012's.
Mazda has really stepped up their game lately. I love my Miata.
Some of the best cars on the market today imho
Car Quality Is Slipping
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Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#12Electric vehicles (EVs) performed worse than gas-powered models in the study. EVs had 240 complaints per 100 vehicles on average, plug-in hybrid vehicles had 239, and gas-powered cars averaged 175. This never fails to baffle me. An ICE vehicle has a hundred times as many moving parts as a BeV. Just how much lower is the BeV production quality to give them more problems?
While ICE are more complicated, they’ve been around longer. The QA process for ICE vehicles is probably better established. As more data is collected on common BeV issues, more defects will be able to be caught by the factory.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#13J.D. Power isn’t an unbiased review. There is zero chance that Dodge and Chevy have real world reliability greater than makes like Toyota, Honda and Mazda. They also play games like counting “problems” without a weight. Infotainment problem fixed in firmware and transmission problem both increment the count by 1?
There's a whole YouTube channel dedicated to satirizing Chevy commercials and their reliance on "real people" and J.D. Power marketing:
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#14Mo' tech mo' problems. Just give me a car that goes forward, backwards, left and right with a roof, windows, seats with few luxuries: air conditioning, power locks/windows, remote start (winter savior). For safety I will take ABS, maybe ESP. Leave me an industry standard DIN or double DIN opening for a radio and speaker locations; factory options always suck. Transmission can be manual or automatic. The rest is fluff that easily breaks.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#15Toyota post tsunami has gone into the trash, can confirm. Keep your < 2012's.
my 2019 4runner is running great. Mostly because they haven't really changed anything with it cept the look since 2012
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#16Toyota post tsunami has gone into the trash, can confirm. Keep your < 2012's.
Mazda has really stepped up their game lately. I love my Miata.
Not really fair to compare average cars to literally the best car More seriously, my leased CX-30 has a ton of features and fit&finish improvements over most "mid-range" brands at a very competitive price. I was deeply unimpressed with the Subaru Crosstrek and Honda CRV specifically.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#17Electric vehicles (EVs) performed worse than gas-powered models in the study. EVs had 240 complaints per 100 vehicles on average, plug-in hybrid vehicles had 239, and gas-powered cars averaged 175. This never fails to baffle me. An ICE vehicle has a hundred times as many moving parts as a BeV. Just how much lower is the BeV production quality to give them more problems?
The issue with these types of surveys is that they don't differentiate between complaints of different severities (or validities). EVs sold in the US tend to have a lot of infotainment features, and as the article mentions:
> The most common complaint? Trouble connecting to Apple Carplay or Android Auto.
They are equating the number of complaints with "car quality" but really what they are directly measuring is the number of times an owner complains.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#18Initial quality always seemed like a silly measure to me. I'm more interested in total cost of ownership through 150k-200k miles. Own a GM for 90 days vs own a GM for 15 years and you'll have vastly different results, IMO.
Reality is that no one owns a car for 200k miles anymore. There are of course outliers, but the vast majority of people are either buying/leasing/trading every 3-4 years, or are at the opposite end of the spectrum buying whatever cheap rust heap they can keep running.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#19Electric vehicles (EVs) performed worse than gas-powered models in the study. EVs had 240 complaints per 100 vehicles on average, plug-in hybrid vehicles had 239, and gas-powered cars averaged 175. This never fails to baffle me. An ICE vehicle has a hundred times as many moving parts as a BeV. Just how much lower is the BeV production quality to give them more problems?
The caveat pointed out in the next paragraph might help explain the numbers:
"Those numbers are complicated by the fact that Tesla vehicles weren’t counted in the study. Fully 75% of the EVs sold in the U.S. last quarter were Tesla products."
The anecdotal experience I've observed among friends is that Tesla owners are happy with the Supercharger network and better software, while other electric makers still are figuring it out, lots of buggy software, slow charging, etc.
Re: Car Quality Is Slipping
#20Initial quality always seemed like a silly measure to me. I'm more interested in total cost of ownership through 150k-200k miles. Own a GM for 90 days vs own a GM for 15 years and you'll have vastly different results, IMO.
Reality is that no one owns a car for 200k miles anymore. There are of course outliers, but the vast majority of people are either buying/leasing/trading every 3-4 years, or are at the opposite end of the spectrum buying whatever cheap rust heap they can keep running.
Citation needed.