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BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

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Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#11

Post by asciimike »

wolrah wrote: post #6
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. The latency makes me ugh. Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting.

> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been…

2021 Tacoma Manual owner here (one of the reasons I got it). Gladiators and Broncos are also available with a manual!

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#12

Post by foobarian »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #10
Nullabillity wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

>> A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Which cars have those today or in the time-frame of the F-series BMWs from TFA? Every fiat/chrysler gearbox is sloppy gooey junk thing, even their performance models have horrific manual gear shifts. I'll cut to the chase instead of listing Ford, Peugeot, etc. etc. The Porsche Cayman 982 manual shift feels awesome to use, it's a delight but that…

I'm not a car nerd by far, and I never drove a manual shift before my Focus ST, but I am completely in love with it. I'm heartbroken that Ford stopped manufacturing those models.

Edit:

Reflecting more on what I like about it. I saw a number of articles or videos, like that 80s Porsche, where the shifter is wiggly or won't go into gear because of long linkages, or falls out of gear. The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear; I absolutely love this feeling. You just push the stick and it falls from 2nd to 3rd, for example. But if you're slowing down it feels like it's harder to put into 3rd but more easy to push it back up into 1st. And then the way the reverse gear is protected with a hefty spring-loaded ring is very nice. Finally, overall the shifter works smoothly, never gets stuck, seems to "know" the gear I want to go into, never falls out of gear... just lovely :-)

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#13

Post by asciimike »

I've spent quite a bit of time hacking my own F-Series BMW, and I can confirm it's a _huge_ pain in the ass, mostly because there is basically zero documentation on how to do it. IMO BMW also occasionally makes some bizarre engineering decisions, for instance, connect one long wire from an internal switch console to the DME unit (engine controller) rather than connect directly to an adjacent CANBUS that already went there. German engineering ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've found the following tools helpful: - newtis.info (has literally all the wiring diagrams as well as a bunch of info on how systems are built and work together, though unfortunately the protocols aren't documented) - Esys (be able to flash new firmware to a control unit or modify settings within a control unit, plus it often contains helpful comments in a mix of English and German that explain what the various acronyms are) - German and American BMW forums (bimmerpost, 1erforum.de); aided of course by a lot of German English Google translate

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#14

Post by throwaway0a5e »

asciimike wrote: post #13

I've spent quite a bit of time hacking my own F-Series BMW, and I can confirm it's a _huge_ pain in the ass, mostly because there is basically zero documentation on how to do it. IMO BMW also occasionally makes some bizarre engineering decisions, for instance, connect one long wire from an internal switch console to the DME unit (engine controller) rather than connect directly to an adjacent CANBUS that already went…

Exactly. It's one thing to "do it right" but all the people who are hurring and durring about how every car has technology are forgetting that ze germans in their pursuit of ze perfect driving machine often don't "do it right" and unless you get lucky and own something a lot of enthusiasts own and have had time to fiddle with and document you're often on your own. The Americans and Japanese tend to be better because they tend to design things to be more tolerant of being used in a way other than the factory way but still the knowledge and skill barrier to entry is high and you still come across plenty of stuff that just won't cooperate unless you exactly replicate the OEM conditions.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#15

Post by Cthulhu_ »

mike_pol wrote: post #4
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. The latency makes me ugh. Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting.

I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?

> aren’t cars consumables now?

Maybe if you're in the earning high-5 figures a year bracket in SF, but for regular people, a car is likely the most or second most expensive thing they own (second to a home). New cars is something for dual-earners and rich folk, for us regular people - and I am a high income earner - new cars, even on finance, is just not an option.

(I'm currently driving a used 2009 Ford Focus, <200K Km on the dial)

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#16

Post by Cthulhu_ »

hatware wrote: post #8

Neat how modern car systems turned into microservices.

I kinda wish, as it stands it feels like decades of different protocols and technologies awkwardly stitched together. In theory everything would be connected on a central bus to a centralized RTOS computer able to read every sensor and adjust everything that needs it 1000x a second (or more), so that anyone could easily hook up a new device or software and subscribe to an event bus, but alas.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#17

Post by gambiting »

Nullabillity wrote: post #7
mike_pol wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?

In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

>>Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

Yeah, no thanks. A good dual clutch automatic is my choice when it comes to actually driving in a sprited way.

But you know what? To each their own.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#18

Post by throwaway0a5e »

wolrah wrote: post #6
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. The latency makes me ugh. Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting.

> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been…

I'm very familiar with EEC-IV era Fords. If you want to have this debate I am very much down.

Your 1993 Crown Vic may as well be a 1980s toaster over compared to the 2010+ cars being discussed. The only digital electronics are in the ECU and for the display on the radio. There is a huge difference between a 90s Ford style lever position sensor and the BMW stuff. If the computer doesn't do the right gear for what you want you just move it until it does. The BMW will spit error messages at you.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#19

Post by davchana »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #15
mike_pol wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?

> aren’t cars consumables now? Maybe if you're in the earning high-5 figures a year bracket in SF, but for regular people, a car is likely the most or second most expensive thing they own (second to a home). New cars is something for dual-earners and rich folk, for us regular people - and I am a high income earner - new cars, even on finance, is just not an option. (I'm currently driving a used 2009 Ford Focus, <200K…

& to add, some of us rent home, so the car is literally anything where we have some equity (& rest the bank owns).

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#20

Post by replygirl »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #10
Nullabillity wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

>> A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Which cars have those today or in the time-frame of the F-series BMWs from TFA? Every fiat/chrysler gearbox is sloppy gooey junk thing, even their performance models have horrific manual gear shifts. I'll cut to the chase instead of listing Ford, Peugeot, etc. etc. The Porsche Cayman 982 manual shift feels awesome to use, it's a delight but that…

try splitting the difference with like a miata or a brz
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