V Language Review • Hacker News Board

Re: V Language Review

#11

Post by agumonkey » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:34 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #8

pwdisswordfish9 wrote: post #6

At this point, why do people even spend time on debunking the marketing claims of this language at all? It's been done to death, whoever was going to be convinced the V developer is a charlatan has already been convinced. For better or for worse.

I think everyone wants a "Rust but better" language to exist, and that very well might be V in 5 years, but Rust wasn't advertising features as 'completed' years before they were implemented/stable and neither should V. Continuing to point out the design issues will either get the marketing claims removed (just throw up a roadmap!) or articles like this will be used to show V's progress in a distant future.

I wouldn't bet a single dollar on V improving to any qualitative level. It's been a surprisingly large transpiling hack. Graydon Hoare had some PLT knowledge before going on doing Rust, it's not just feature names and potential impl.

Re: V Language Review

#12

Post by jitl » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:34 PM UTC

My recommendation is that if you like the look of V, you should consider Zig or Odin as well. Personally, Zig seems like the most promising C-but-modern language due to the interesting compile-time programming features and impressive investment in toolchain infrastructure.

Re: V Language Review

#13

Post by umvi » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:41 PM UTC

Seirdy wrote: post #5

smcl wrote: post #3

Christine Dodrill's early assessment of the language might be of interest here: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 She doesn't pull any punches, but I think she was quite prescient in capturing the vibe of the project.

Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.

Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...

Re: V Language Review

#14

Post by Eigen7 » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #8

pwdisswordfish9 wrote: post #6

At this point, why do people even spend time on debunking the marketing claims of this language at all? It's been done to death, whoever was going to be convinced the V developer is a charlatan has already been convinced. For better or for worse.

I think everyone wants a "Rust but better" language to exist, and that very well might be V in 5 years, but Rust wasn't advertising features as 'completed' years before they were implemented/stable and neither should V. Continuing to point out the design issues will either get the marketing claims removed (just throw up a roadmap!) or articles like this will be used to show V's progress in a distant future.

No post body was provided.

Re: V Language Review

#15

Post by andsoitis » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #13

Seirdy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.

Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...

Name, at least that's my interpretation from looking at her Contact Me page:

https://xeiaso.net/contact

[correction] on their GitHub page I see: Please call me (order of preference): Xe/xer, They/them or She/her please.

[edit] obscure to have your pronoun also be your name (or maybe your title?). Or maybe it is all just satire, given: "I am an ordained minister with the Church of the Latter-day Dude. This allows me to officiate religious ceremonies in at least the United States." - https://dudeism.com

Re: V Language Review

#16

Post by mawfig » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #9

People like to dunk on V because of its author and community, but I will say that the design of the language itself (leaving aside the implementation) is genuinely interesting. To me, it feels like what Go should have been. And I like Go. So obviously I have a bit of a soft spot for V. Disclaimer: I’ve never actually used it.

I'm sorry if you feel this is a dunk on V. Having seen quite a bit of discussion both on hacker news and other places saying that V has improved significantly since Xe's articles a few years ago, I thought it would be worth while to attempt a modern evaluation of the language based on where it is today. Throughout, I tried to ground my review by basing it on the claims the developers themselves make.

Would you mind expanding on your later comment? While I'm not a Go programmer, it's pretty easy for me to see why it has the features it has based on their commitment to fast compile times and being easy to learn. V on the other hand feels like an incoherent list of the biggest buzzwords in the industry right now with no clear overall design.

Re: V Language Review

#17

Post by iamsahebgiri » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

jitl wrote: post #12

My recommendation is that if you like the look of V, you should consider Zig or Odin as well. Personally, Zig seems like the most promising C-but-modern language due to the interesting compile-time programming features and impressive investment in toolchain infrastructure.

Where does language like Vala stand? Is it worth checking out?

Re: V Language Review

#18

Post by mawfig » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

smcl wrote: post #3

Christine Dodrill's early assessment of the language might be of interest here: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 She doesn't pull any punches, but I think she was quite prescient in capturing the vibe of the project.

Thanks for linking Xe's blog here! It's a few years old and I've seen a lot of comments on HN that suggest V has improved significantly since 2019 so I thought it might be worth looking into for myself and writing down a review of what I found.

Re: V Language Review

#19

Post by rvz » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #13

Seirdy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.

Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...

Who gives. Just use 'they' or 'them', or whatever. It is a universal catch all, gender neutral, i18n inclusivity conformant, ISO 69420 compliant, race neutral, etc.

At this point, all of it is basically designed to further confuse and only create a very monthly chaotic outcome for everyone.

Re: V Language Review

#20

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 9:56 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #13

Seirdy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.

Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...

[deleted]