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Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

thoughts.jatan.space

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Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#11

Post by kareemsabri »

Patreon is a business and I don't begrudge them the ability to charge customers for their service (though I think it's pretty buggy). Before Patreon, I did not subscribe to a single podcast. After Patreon, I subscribe to 3-5 at various times. I subscribe to a couple other standalone products but the bar is certainly higher as the value they must provide is greater to get over having another subscription on another platform.

So I think Patreon likely does help individuals get business, even if they aren't out advertising on your behalf. That said, I agree the fee does seem high, given it is largely payment processing (and a simple media player) and we know what Stripe charges for that. I think they will probably be at risk from higher quality entrants like Substack who is moving into podcasting as well.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#12

Post by bombcar »

maxshadurskiy wrote: post #5
tootie wrote: post #2

Apple take 30%. You have to understand that you're not paying just for the service, but the reach. You can DIY your donation platform and the tech side isn't rocket science, the issue that platforms like Patreon and Apple have access to orders of magnitude more users than you can ever generate on your own.

Article states the opposite is true. Small creators, do not receive decent amount of discoverability on Patreon. I guess same true for Apple AppStore.

There's no discoverability anywhere, save if you get into a new platform super early. There's just too many things.

Most creators who have "made it" (whatever that may be) should work on setting up their own website with their own payment processing and encourage fans to use it, less for the additional money and more for the security against single-income flows.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#13

Post by sokoloff »

makeitdouble wrote: post #7
ghostly_s wrote: post #4

This article claims Patreon's true cut is not the advertised 8-10%, but *86-83%*?? Surely this can't be true? We would have heard more people complaining about it by now.

It might have been corrected ? it currently reads to me as 14~17, which is not great, but not that high either depending on the exact case. > When considering all factors, including standard payout processing fees, the real cut for a creator on Patreon is often a stark ~14-17% depending on the exact scenario.

If a creator and a platform are splitting a dollar and “the real cut for a creator is ~15%”, I’d expect that to mean the creator gets $0.15 and the platform $0.85.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#14

Post by Anx2k »

tootie wrote: post #2

Apple take 30%. You have to understand that you're not paying just for the service, but the reach. You can DIY your donation platform and the tech side isn't rocket science, the issue that platforms like Patreon and Apple have access to orders of magnitude more users than you can ever generate on your own.

In the case of Apple you’re really paying for access to the platform, as you don’t have a choice. But in the case of Patreon, I don’t think they offer anything in terms of reach - by this I mean I’ve never made the decision to support a creator because they were on the platform. Typically if I decide to support someone, I just go to whatever they point me to - and I think this was the authors point (especially for very narrow/vertical creators).

A better example of a more ‘reach’ offering would probably be YouTube’s similar offering (although I don’t know their fee structure), which goes beyond just reach and has very low friction for creators who make content on that platform.

Honestly I feel like Patreon as a platform is pretty underwhelming from the donator side of things, nor do I see much in terms of what’s changed to improve the experience over the years as their fees have increased - but I have no idea what has changed on the creator side.

I think the big takeaway (no surprise) is that the creator really owns the donator, not the platform - vs someplace like Apple where they have a much stronger relationship with the customer than your typical app developer does.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#15

Post by hendrikrassmann »

tootie wrote: post #2

Apple take 30%. You have to understand that you're not paying just for the service, but the reach. You can DIY your donation platform and the tech side isn't rocket science, the issue that platforms like Patreon and Apple have access to orders of magnitude more users than you can ever generate on your own.

I would say it's the other way round. Since creators need an income, patreon recieves a huge amount of free advertising from small and big influencers/youtubers/etc

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#16

Post by WesleyLivesay »

These articles seem to pop up from time to time, and the persons numbers seem roughly accurate in my experience.

In my experience Patreon has been around 11% cut scenario, split very roughly between Payment Fees and Platform fees. But I am on the Founders plan, which is the same 5% platform fees as Patreon Lite, but with the extra features of the 8% Pro plans.

I do think it is probably best for creators to diversify their platforms, but I still think that Patreon is worth it just because of it being a very well known platform outside of just tech circles.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#17

Post by kareemsabri »

bombcar wrote: post #12
maxshadurskiy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article states the opposite is true. Small creators, do not receive decent amount of discoverability on Patreon. I guess same true for Apple AppStore.

There's no discoverability anywhere, save if you get into a new platform super early. There's just too many things. Most creators who have "made it" (whatever that may be) should work on setting up their own website with their own payment processing and encourage fans to use it, less for the additional money and more for the security against single-income flows.

I don't think that's true, there's discoverability on Spotify. I often get suggested artists or podcasts based on what I already listen to, and some of them are very good.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#18

Post by colechristensen »

comboy wrote: post #3

I'm not sure it's that high. They probably have AML regulations in multiple countries on their backs, and they are dealing with tons of tiny payments not a few big ones. For each tiny payment there's some chance of a problem occurring which will require support time.

Banks take care of an enormous amount of small transactions on credit and debit cards and only charge ~3%, some European countries have fees as low as 0.3%.

The high fees of patreon have nothing to do with payment support issues.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#19

Post by egypturnash »

tootie wrote: post #2

Apple take 30%. You have to understand that you're not paying just for the service, but the reach. You can DIY your donation platform and the tech side isn't rocket science, the issue that platforms like Patreon and Apple have access to orders of magnitude more users than you can ever generate on your own.

I make my living off of Patreon and I can confirm that they do jack shit to promote your work unless you are already one of their top earners. “Paying for the reach” is a bullshit excuse for the amount of money they’re sucking off of creators to try and make an immense payout for their VC.

My spreadsheet says the total cut of my take that goes to Patreon and payment processing is about 10-15%, but I am an Early Adopter who gets a much better deal from them. For someone like this dude who doesn’t have this deal and has their usurious international fees on top of it, it’s definitely a bad choice.

Patreon did one big thing: they took the concept of “monthly donations to support the arts” and repackaged it in a way that took off. I never got support via the old PayPal donation button like I have via Patreon.

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