Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 148 posts

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#11

Post by dhzhzjsbevs »

cpsns wrote: post #9
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

> I find myself shocked by how little regard people have for the intelligence of other animals. If people readily accepted the intelligence of many mammals, much less other animals, they would have to confront some very serious cognitive dissonance and moral dilemmas. That said, I've found many dog folks are super dismissive of the idea of cats being smart and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps part of the problem is…

I always thought that was a sign of their intelligence over dogs.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#12

Post by mromanuk »

cpsns wrote: post #9
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

> I find myself shocked by how little regard people have for the intelligence of other animals. If people readily accepted the intelligence of many mammals, much less other animals, they would have to confront some very serious cognitive dissonance and moral dilemmas. That said, I've found many dog folks are super dismissive of the idea of cats being smart and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps part of the problem is…

> If people readily accepted the intelligence of many mammals, much less other animals, they would have to confront some very serious cognitive dissonance and moral dilemmas.

Not sure about that, lot of people are completely fine with human being killed for several reasons (punishment for robbery just to give you an example).

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#13

Post by anyonecancode »

woojoo666 wrote: post #6

Seems quite relevant to the recent discussion about current AI sentience [1] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31716639

Had the same thought.

I think one other major difference between biological brains and computers, beyond the fact of having a body vs not, is that biology is analog and not digital. A signal going from cell to cell in a brain or up a spinal cord isn't just "on" or "off", but in any number of infinite states. No matter how many bits you manage to pack into a digital "brain," that's a fundamental difference.

Now I can't predict out to the future and say something like digital intelligence is "impossible" or that in the vast universe all life is analog. But from the vantage point of today and what we currently know, it feels that reality is fundamentally analog and so any digital brain can only ever hope to be a simulation of intelligence.

On the flip side, I think we vastly underestimate the various ways intelligence does and can exist amongst living creatures.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#14

Post by boplicity »

cpsns wrote: post #9
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

> I find myself shocked by how little regard people have for the intelligence of other animals. If people readily accepted the intelligence of many mammals, much less other animals, they would have to confront some very serious cognitive dissonance and moral dilemmas. That said, I've found many dog folks are super dismissive of the idea of cats being smart and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps part of the problem is…

> many dog folks are super dismissive of the idea of cats being smart and I'm not sure why that is.

assessment of intelligence is often based on comparing animal intelligence to human intelligence. Dogs are adept at communicating in ways that humans understand. Cats, on the other hand, have an unhuman mind, and don't seek empathy the way dogs do. They do it in a cat way. To understand the intelligence of animals, truly, we should let go of our notions of human intelligence, and seek to enter animal perception as it is; not to correlate our perceptions with theirs, which would limit our understanding.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#15

Post by polishdude20 »

I was surprised by the intelligence of a little spider I encountered the other day. As I was looking for my keys to enter the house, this little jumping spider was on the front door. As I approached the door he moved almost with anticipation. As I turned the keys, he got closer to the door edge. As I opened the door, he swung himself around the door and into the house ahead of me!

At that point I decided if got this spectacular show, he can enter my house and do whatever he wants.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#16

Post by staticman2 »

cpsns wrote: post #9
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

> I find myself shocked by how little regard people have for the intelligence of other animals. If people readily accepted the intelligence of many mammals, much less other animals, they would have to confront some very serious cognitive dissonance and moral dilemmas. That said, I've found many dog folks are super dismissive of the idea of cats being smart and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps part of the problem is…

I think dogs have better social skills since they (well, wolves) evolved to form packs and help each other out. This can make them seem more intelligent.

Cats are worse at communication as they evolved to be more solitary.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#18

Post by jcims »

samatman wrote: post #10
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

I agree with your friend. Dogs have around twice as many cortical neurons as cats, and it shows. Interestingly, raccoons, which are the size of cats, have a comparable number of neurons in the cortex as dogs. And act like it as well. Which isn't to say cats are like, dumb creatures, and it's fine you like them more. Dogs are smarter though, according to me, your buddy, and zoologists, who unlike the three of us know…

I caught a young mother raccoon in a live trap a few years ago. The process of releasing her was interesting. She maintained eye contact with me the entire time i was handling the cage. She used her front paws to stay upright and positioned to maintain said eye contact with incredible hand-like dexterity. It was clear she was trying to predict how i was going to move the cage and was doing a good job.

In my limited experience oldet raccoons tend to be much more aggressive, making lots of noise and showing their teeth.

Re: Animal magic: why intelligence isn’t just for humans

#20

Post by groby_b »

samatman wrote: post #10
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #2

I had a conversation recently with a friend about the classic cats vs. dogs, which species is more intelligent. It was surprising to me how dismissive he was about cat intelligence and adamant that they were nowhere near dogs' intelligence, mostly based on the ability to train dogs. I've clicker trained my cats to sit and also to follow my finger. Searching around the net and YouTube you can find cats learning all ki…

I agree with your friend. Dogs have around twice as many cortical neurons as cats, and it shows. Interestingly, raccoons, which are the size of cats, have a comparable number of neurons in the cortex as dogs. And act like it as well. Which isn't to say cats are like, dumb creatures, and it's fine you like them more. Dogs are smarter though, according to me, your buddy, and zoologists, who unlike the three of us know…

Uhuh. They have more neurons. This does say exactly nothing about "smart".

There's also the small matter that while dogs have more neurons than cats in general, they have significantly less neurons allocated to their cortex. The study you likely refer to talks about total brain matter.

It is, in short, a dog lovers argument.

Post reply on HN