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Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

alaskapublic.org

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Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#11

Post by mod »

notch656a wrote: post #9
phkahler wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the residents of King Cove. BTW they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation. It's about power and control if you go by this part: “The split panel decision would allow the secretary, without any public process or without compliance with any other laws, to engage in a backroom land exchange,”

45% of households in King Cove have children who had no choice in whether the road is there or not 40 years ago. It's hard to just blame them that "they knew the roads weren't there" when they were born thus they're not allowed roads to medical care the way I (and probably you) are.

I would sooner take the children away or force the residents to move than pave a road through the Alaskan wilderness.

I wouldn't do those things either, though. People get to choose where and how to raise their children. Children don't get a say so in virtually anything that affects them.

"Think of the children" is not a good argument.

Also the whole population is like 1200 people. We're talking about a relative handful of kids. Like one very small elementary school (edit: Google search says there's 87 kids in PK-12th grade. Combined.)

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#12

Post by ivanhoe »

phkahler wrote: post #3
CA0DA wrote: post #2

For those simply upvoting without reading the article, this case is more nuanced than the headline may sound: > Residents in the community of King Cove want to exchange land to build a gravel road through the refuge to provide access to an all-weather airport in nearby Cold Bay for medical transports.

It's not about the residents of King Cove. BTW they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation. It's about power and control if you go by this part: “The split panel decision would allow the secretary, without any public process or without compliance with any other laws, to engage in a backroom land exchange,”

> they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation.

It's a really weird argument, you're basically saying that people shouldn't be allowed to upgrade their infrastructure ever? Imagine saying that for some poor country: "Oh, well, they either had no running water before, or they knew the situation before moving there, so screw them, they can just continue walking 5 miles every day to bring water from the spring".

Also they've been without that road a lot longer than 40 years, King Cove exists since at least 1930s. Population is dropping so I doubt many people have been moving there, most of people live there their whole life....and if they get sick or injured and planes can't land, they're screwed without that road.

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#13

Post by MomoXenosaga »

mod wrote: post #10
CA0DA wrote: post #2

For those simply upvoting without reading the article, this case is more nuanced than the headline may sound: > Residents in the community of King Cove want to exchange land to build a gravel road through the refuge to provide access to an all-weather airport in nearby Cold Bay for medical transports.

I personally don't consider that nuanced. I live five miles from pavement, an hour from a hospital, so I understand these concerns. I would be absolutely disgusted if they paved through my local national forest for some quicker access to... Anything. Literally anything. Those people all have the choice to leave. Living in remote places comes with many, many tradeoffs and inconveniences. There's no safety in the wilde…

We know from history that the destruction of the jungle's began with roads making them accessible to illegal loggers, miners and hunters. The road to hell...

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#15

Post by jfoutz »

Looking at google maps, there's a ferry about 30 mile ride on the water.

I don't know the route they're proposing, but maybe 60 miles over mountains. Ugh. The ambulance isn't going to be going 60 over washboard roads.

The good people of Alaska can do whatever they want, but if the concern is medical emergencies, they should seriously consider keeping a plane at the airport, illuminate the airport, and make sure the runway stays plowed. Anchorage is about 900 miles away. A helicopter ride over to cold bay, then on a plane to Anchorage might be easier if they can keep a pilots on hand.

Actually there's a bunch of really small, really remote communities up there. helicopter service to cold bay, plane to the trauma center might be a really good plan.

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#16

Post by Sharlin »

notch656a wrote: post #9
phkahler wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the residents of King Cove. BTW they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation. It's about power and control if you go by this part: “The split panel decision would allow the secretary, without any public process or without compliance with any other laws, to engage in a backroom land exchange,”

45% of households in King Cove have children who had no choice in whether the road is there or not 40 years ago. It's hard to just blame them that "they knew the roads weren't there" when they were born thus they're not allowed roads to medical care the way I (and probably you) are.

Well, children are not even asked whether they want to be created, never mind where they want to be born.

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#17

Post by mod »

notch656a wrote: post #4
CA0DA wrote: post #2

For those simply upvoting without reading the article, this case is more nuanced than the headline may sound: > Residents in the community of King Cove want to exchange land to build a gravel road through the refuge to provide access to an all-weather airport in nearby Cold Bay for medical transports.

A well connected, wealthy person with no real worries about their own access to medical professionals and no real roots in Alaska feigning to act for the good of nature but in the process acting against the interest of these communities? Say it aint so.

What does 97 year old Jimmy Carter have to gain from making a stand here?

I cannot come up with any motivations besides the guy actually just wants to protect the wild.

He grew up close to the land, so that makes sense to me.

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#19

Post by notch656a »

mod wrote: post #11
notch656a wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45% of households in King Cove have children who had no choice in whether the road is there or not 40 years ago. It's hard to just blame them that "they knew the roads weren't there" when they were born thus they're not allowed roads to medical care the way I (and probably you) are.

I would sooner take the children away or force the residents to move than pave a road through the Alaskan wilderness. I wouldn't do those things either, though. People get to choose where and how to raise their children. Children don't get a say so in virtually anything that affects them. "Think of the children" is not a good argument. Also the whole population is like 1200 people. We're talking about a relative hand…

>BTW they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation.

Is patently false. It's not "think of the children." It's pointing out that statement was a vicious lie. I'm pointing out they've simply ignored the people who were born there.

We're talking about a road connecting two closest communities. You've said yourelf you wouldn't do the things to remove these residents from these communities. I would find it hypocritical for someone to take advantages of roads in their own community while denying this community a single road to the closest airport to the kind of medical services that those in the lower 48 can drive to (even if it takes them awhile).

Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’

#20

Post by WalterBright »

ivanhoe wrote: post #12
phkahler wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the residents of King Cove. BTW they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation. It's about power and control if you go by this part: “The split panel decision would allow the secretary, without any public process or without compliance with any other laws, to engage in a backroom land exchange,”

> they've either been without that road for 40 years, or moved there knowing the situation. It's a really weird argument, you're basically saying that people shouldn't be allowed to upgrade their infrastructure ever? Imagine saying that for some poor country: "Oh, well, they either had no running water before, or they knew the situation before moving there, so screw them, they can just continue walking 5 miles every…

> people shouldn't be allowed to upgrade their infrastructure ever?

In a wilderness area? No.

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