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Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#11

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Victerius wrote: post #7

Can a company make an offer outside its stated range? E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate? If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful, and if they can't, by law, companies could skirt the law by off…

Probably easier to have multiple reqs for the same job under different titles to cover a broader range or throw perks of hard to define monetary value at the wall until something sticks than to go through whatever process would be required to offer outside the range.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#12

Post by wing-_-nuts »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
epwr wrote: post #8

> Microsoft said it would disclose salary ranges in all internal and external U.S. job postings no later than January 2023. That date is when Washington state, where Microsoft’s headquarters are located, will start requiring employers with at least 15 employees to disclose salary ranges for each position. In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law.

> In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law Microsoft is under no obligation to comply with Washington law outside Washington. That's what they're doing here.

Probably easier to just do it for everybody than have two separate listings for WA and the rest of the US. I wonder if this is TC or just salary?

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#13

Post by ghaff »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #11
Victerius wrote: post #7

Can a company make an offer outside its stated range? E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate? If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful, and if they can't, by law, companies could skirt the law by off…

Probably easier to have multiple reqs for the same job under different titles to cover a broader range or throw perks of hard to define monetary value at the wall until something sticks than to go through whatever process would be required to offer outside the range.

Or $170K is the most they're willing to offer for a particular position. And, if someone wants significantly more, they'll just pass. Companies will find ways to make exceptions for someone they really want--including creating a new position for them. But companies won't always salary match.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#14

Post by itqwertz »

avgDev wrote: post #3

This is the way. We need more of this. I'm at a point where if a recruiter messages me "about an exciting opportunity" without any salary information, he/she will not get a response. While there are some jobs that maybe I would consider a pay cut for, I generally want to make more money because that allows me to invest more so I can be free one day.

If you do follow up and eventually ask for a salary range, expect vague terms like “competitive” or “market rate”.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#15

Post by epwr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
epwr wrote: post #8

> Microsoft said it would disclose salary ranges in all internal and external U.S. job postings no later than January 2023. That date is when Washington state, where Microsoft’s headquarters are located, will start requiring employers with at least 15 employees to disclose salary ranges for each position. In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law.

> In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law Microsoft is under no obligation to comply with Washington law outside Washington. That's what they're doing here.

This article [1] seems to state pretty clearly that the law applies to all job posting by a company in Washington state. Any sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents?

[1] https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2022...

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#16

Post by JumpCrisscross »

epwr wrote: post #15
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law Microsoft is under no obligation to comply with Washington law outside Washington. That's what they're doing here.

This article [1] seems to state pretty clearly that the law applies to all job posting by a company in Washington state. Any sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? [1] https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2022...

> sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents?

Washington state can't regulate how Microsoft hires people in Texas.

Microsoft Corp. isn't even a Washington legal entity. (EDIT: Never mind, I stand corrected [1]. In any case, the broader point stands. Delaware doesn't get to regulate how its entities hire outside Delaware. This is well-settled employment/interstate commerce law.)

[1] https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/789019/00015...

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#17

Post by Gustomaximus »

Victerius wrote: post #7

Can a company make an offer outside its stated range? E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate? If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful, and if they can't, by law, companies could skirt the law by off…

> If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful

Sure they are. With common sense and fines for clear ongoing breaches it will do as planned.

There are always exceptions so if occasionally a salary is bypassed to match the candidate, higher or lower this is going to happen and be reasonable.

If 30%+ of candidates get paid less than the advertised role there is a clear case of bait and switch for authorities to show a court type deal.

I feel you need to approach this from altitude rather than individual cases.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#18

Post by grimjack00 »

Victerius wrote: post #7

Can a company make an offer outside its stated range? E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate? If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful, and if they can't, by law, companies could skirt the law by off…

> E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k?

If I was reviewing job descriptions, and the max of the posted range is less than my current salary, I'm probably not going to apply.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#19

Post by hef19898 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
epwr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article [1] seems to state pretty clearly that the law applies to all job posting by a company in Washington state. Any sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? [1] https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2022...

> sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? Washington state can't regulate how Microsoft hires people in Texas. Microsoft Corp. isn't even a Washington legal entity. (EDIT: Never mind, I stand corrected [1]. In any case, the broader point stands. Delaware doesn't get to regulate how its entities hire outside Delaware. This is well-settled employment/interstate commerce law.) [1] https://www.s…

If you do that only for jobs in Washington state it is only a question of time until the first discrimibation law suites are filed. Plus it is easy good press.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#20

Post by BlargMcLarg »

avgDev wrote: post #3

This is the way. We need more of this. I'm at a point where if a recruiter messages me "about an exciting opportunity" without any salary information, he/she will not get a response. While there are some jobs that maybe I would consider a pay cut for, I generally want to make more money because that allows me to invest more so I can be free one day.

The whole prudish / secretive attitude around salaries has got to be one of the most annoying parts. Just get the formalities over with instead of wasting time, please.
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