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California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

nytimes.com

11–20 of 136 posts

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#11
war on crime causes crime, draconic penalties do not prevent or even majorly reduce crime if a there is a long list of crime causing things which are not fixed.

Like in no specific order: poverty, bleak future, failed "common" education system, state supported/tolerated exploition of citizens, failing police, falling justice system (if you ask they are meant to protect citizens), systematic deep rooted discrimination, toleration of fascism

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#12
post #7

I hope this is the beginning of a shift back towards the centre on both the right and the left.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#13
post #7

I hope this is the beginning of a shift back towards the centre on both the right and the left.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

Article states that Trump-backed candidates did not do well.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#14
post #2

This SF district attorney recall thing is a really good example of the media's power to manufacture a story. Even if you accept the premise that crime stats rise or fall in response to DA policies, those stats mostly fell during Boudin's tenure. But if you show the video of someone robbing a convenience store (in oakland! another city entirely!) enough times on loop, you can convince enough voters that Something Must…

Crime stats as presented and as experienced can diverge quite heavily.

I think the one thing with the data is how much crime it takes to make a neighborhood feel unsafe. And my hypothesis is that the threshold is very, very low. Like double digits low. It doesn’t take much to rattle the psyche of a community.

But sure. Crime falls by 40% during a DA’s tenure (hypothetical example) so all is well right? But what is the absolute number and what does that absolute number translate to in the real world?

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#15

war on crime causes crime, draconic penalties do not prevent or even majorly reduce crime if a there is a long list of crime causing things which are not fixed. Like in no specific order: poverty, bleak future, failed "common" education system, state supported/tolerated exploition of citizens, failing police, falling justice system (if you ask they are meant to protect citizens), systematic deep rooted discrimination…

What is toleration of fascism? Most people I talked to don't even know what fascism is, but they use the term very liberally. Do you have national-socialists in California?

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.

This reminds me of a comic strip I saw during Obama's term, when he was hailed as a great compromiser.

It showed Obama standing opposite a Republican, and the Republican saying:

"If you take a step towards me, I'll take a step towards you."

So Obama takes a step towards the Republican, who doesn't move and just says again:

"If you take a step towards me, I'll take a step towards you."

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#17
post #2

This SF district attorney recall thing is a really good example of the media's power to manufacture a story. Even if you accept the premise that crime stats rise or fall in response to DA policies, those stats mostly fell during Boudin's tenure. But if you show the video of someone robbing a convenience store (in oakland! another city entirely!) enough times on loop, you can convince enough voters that Something Must…

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.

but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU.

Its right which shifted so far right that it might seem the left shifted away.

A lot of things coming from the republican party, of bring tolerated by the republican party on recent years are uncanily similar to how Hitler proceeded before he started mass murdering (like in the rethoric of speach and willingness to commit violence etc.)

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#19
post #7

I hope this is the beginning of a shift back towards the centre on both the right and the left.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

Because the left has gone so far left that everyone looks like they are far right comparatively. So by having the left come more towards the center, the whole political spectrum would shrink back towards the middle.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#20
post #17
post #2

This SF district attorney recall thing is a really good example of the media's power to manufacture a story. Even if you accept the premise that crime stats rise or fall in response to DA policies, those stats mostly fell during Boudin's tenure. But if you show the video of someone robbing a convenience store (in oakland! another city entirely!) enough times on loop, you can convince enough voters that Something Must…

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

Is there evidence for this claim?
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