Dropping out is probably not for you • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#11

Post by padobson » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 12:43 PM UTC

"Don't do it. Why? Because if that's your character you need every bit of structure that your school or university is providing you. Before you can even think of starting your own business you will have to learn self-discipline."

OR you can drop out and get a lousy, physical job - get the same structure you get from school, gain better appreciation for mental skills and abilities that university teaches you, and add to your bankroll (albeit, slowly) instead of your debt load.

This, instead of coasting through school with lousy character and no discipline and getting less out of it then if you appreciate it more.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#12

Post by bozho » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:00 PM UTC

Agreed. But I'll just add one option that worked for me. I dropped out after the first semester. Then I found a job as a software engineer. In 4 years I'm a valuable senior java developer that everyone is trying to hire. Have I graduated? Yes, from the school of real-world software projects. I didn't have a startup business (well, I had one which failed, and I'm having one right now, on the side), but it was still a better option to drop out.

Btw, I signed up for a external program at the University of London so that I could still get a BSc without actually doing anything academic - so now I'm 24 with 4 years of real-life work experience and a BSc (not that I need it, but it's there)

So, perhaps it is better to summarize it that way: if you clearly see opportunities for yourself that are better than staying in university - drop out.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#13

Post by kiba » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:10 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #10

Thank you. Excellent article that needs to be read by everyone who's considering dropping out for "a startup". Let's ignore the complexities and focus on crude market value. A smart person with no college degree can probably earn $25,000 per year at 18. We're assuming a middle to upper-middle class background-- no special family connections-- and a reasonable work ethic. With a CS, math, or science degree from a good…

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress.

Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#14

Post by dfield » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:16 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #13

michaelochurch wrote: post #10

Thank you. Excellent article that needs to be read by everyone who's considering dropping out for "a startup". Let's ignore the complexities and focus on crude market value. A smart person with no college degree can probably earn $25,000 per year at 18. We're assuming a middle to upper-middle class background-- no special family connections-- and a reasonable work ethic. With a CS, math, or science degree from a good…

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress. Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

SRS?

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#15

Post by ctdonath » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

Notice that all the lauded examples of "well, X dropped out and made it big!" entail X starting the business during schools and being so wildly successful at it that school was just in the way. Michael Dell was spending all his waking hours building PCs in his dorm. Gates was well on his way to selling DOS to IBM. Each had already gotten to where college helps you go.

Remember Gladwell's "10,000 hours" rule of thumb for success? THAT is what college is. 50 hours per week for 50 weeks per year for 4 years is 10,000 hours. You graduate from high school, and realize you haven't mastered a marketable skill[1] - so you sign up for a four-year boot-camp that will drag you, kicking and screaming, through your obligatory 10,000 hours.

Thing is, most the successful dropouts were already "practicing" well before they started college. Gladwell notes that Gates was putting in hours a day, for years, of programming before getting to college (at a time that programming required connections and money, being a motivated kid he was allowed free use at 4am). By the time they dropped out (perhaps long before), they already had their 10,000 hours in. A grade-school kid has opportunity for about 5,000 hours of "practice" available...and most use that time throwing balls or acting, building unmarketable skills.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#16

Post by yummyfajitas » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

I don't think (2) is correct:

You don't like to learn, and you need more money...Don't do it. Why? Because that stuff you learn you will need later on, and you will need it badly.

Of all the stuff I learned in college, I needed very little of it. This includes many classes I enjoyed. Most of it I've forgotten already. Not only that, I didn't even take the traditional college -> job route - I stayed in academia for 8 years after college.

Some of the many classes I took: medieval literature, women's studies, chemistry (3 semesters), population dynamics for environmental engineering, 2 semesters of economics, optics, and all of this is just the stuff I can think of. Most of my college experience was spent learning stuff I don't need to know and have now forgotten.

Stay in school for the sheepskin so that you can signal conscientiousness to the world. But focus on networking, not learning. Most of what you learn is a waste of time.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#17

Post by ctdonath » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:22 PM UTC

jackgavigan wrote: post #4

keiferski wrote: post #2

I think there's definitely some value in taking time off to figure out where you're going (and where you want to be.) Keeping your head down and finishing for the sake of finishing is probably not going to end well; you'll be in debt, you will have lost the opportunity cost of your time in school, and you still might not know what you want to do. Don't be the guy who's in debt from a degree in a field he doesn't want…

> I think there's definitely some value in taking time off to figure out where you're going (and where you want to be.) Do you really have to take time off to do that? Does college take up so many hours a week that it simply leaves zero time for you to "figure out where you're going"? Seriously?

A lot of students spend 2-4 years "trying to figure out where I'm going and what I want to be". Insofar as they haven't figured it out, and won't figure it out in that time, perhaps best if they take some time off and stop spending huge piles of money they don't have getting to where they don't want to go.

To wit: the First Law Of Holes is "stop digging".

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#18

Post by tormentor » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:23 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #2

I think there's definitely some value in taking time off to figure out where you're going (and where you want to be.) Keeping your head down and finishing for the sake of finishing is probably not going to end well; you'll be in debt, you will have lost the opportunity cost of your time in school, and you still might not know what you want to do. Don't be the guy who's in debt from a degree in a field he doesn't want…

I agree with this. I left school because I realized what I wanted to do and it WASN'T I.T. administration. I didn't want to end up at a huge corporation wearing a suit and hating my life. Now I work doing what I love and I'm learning a lot from others using hands on experience. Eventually I will start my own business which is what I truly want. If you have a vision and the motivation; and you know you can do it without school, go for it.

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#19

Post by calpaterson » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:25 PM UTC

dfield wrote: post #14

kiba wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress. Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

SRS?

Maybe: "Spaced Repetition System"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition

Re: Dropping out is probably not for you

#20

Post by DavidChouinard » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 1:27 PM UTC

dfield wrote: post #14

kiba wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep deprivation. Drunk people. Final exam stress. Sleep deprivation and final exam stress is mostly our own making. If you use SRS and study regularly, I am sure the college life is no problem.

SRS?

Spaced Repetition Software. It's a technique to become dramatically better at memorization.

This Wired article is fascinating look at the founder of SuperMemo, one of the big players in that industry: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia... Highly recommended, it's a great read.