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Grandpa’s Basement House

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Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#11

Post by paulryanrogers »

next_xibalba wrote: post #9
djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Another wrinkle is that many more areas are technically cities; which usually comes with rules like no bees, chickens, goats, etc. Yet just a block or two away and one could live in a township which rarely has such rules.

Generally though I think your point stands, the USA is big enough and varied enough one can usually chose a nearby location which permits hobby farming.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#12

Post by tomcam »

Felt like I read a wonderful book in 5 minutes. That was a (to my mind) politically neutral tour de force that captured the last 150 years of housing policy, grounding its thesis with fascinating images and writing.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#13

Post by giantg2 »

kasey_junk wrote: post #7

“I asked why and was told that by the 1950s it was clear that the national economy had re-centered away from agriculture and small farm towns to a handful of big cities.” You were told wrong by more than 30 years. The US was officially more urban than rural by the 1920 census but the demographic trend had been going on for 50 years before that. By 1900 1 in 10 Americans lived in just 5 cities (NYC, Chicago, Philly, S…

They aren't wrong, and neither are you. Population growth was large in the cities due to immigration. And if you had many children on a farm, you couldn't divide the land for the next generation and still be profitable, so they had to move to cities. What happened from the 50s-80s were small farms being given up because they weren't economical.

The machinery during the 50s-60s eliminated a lot of agricultural jobs, and drive down prices. Not just for farmers, but also in processing agricultural products.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#14

Post by tomcam »

gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most.

An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you.

What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and you can’t make your money back on the house?

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#15

Post by nsxwolf »

djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

I specifically chose my neighborhood based on the HOA. I like that every yard has a lawn and that I don’t have to listen to neighbors chickens. I like knowing no one is allowed to paint giant murals on the siding or drill for oil on their front lawn.

The only way to guarantee things like this don’t happen is with some sort of rules in place.

If that means I hate freedom, oh well.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#16

Post by djvdq »

next_xibalba wrote: post #9
djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds.

I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least funny.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#17

Post by whywhywhywhy »

tomcam wrote: post #14
gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most. An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you. What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and yo…

Shocking how quickly peoples opinions change on this stuff when an eccentric next door can lower the value of their own investments

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#18

Post by iamevn »

next_xibalba wrote: post #9
djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Unsure is the emphasis on "freely" is sarcasm but people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms. If the house you can get has a shitty HOA then you're stuck with it. It took us dozens of offers (all well over asking price) before we finally had one that got through and there's no way we'd be able to be picky about HOA.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#19

Post by quesera »

tomcam wrote: post #14
gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

> Those kinds of folk need representation the most. An understandable sentiment. How much are you willing to pay for it? If you have a $1.5 million mortgage and that loon shows up next door and paints their house purple, your house might lose $300,000 in value. Same with the other neighbors, who also pay mortgages but aren’t as compassionate as you. What happens when your spouse gets a sudden offer to relocate and yo…

> your house might lose $300,000 in value

Dramatic license aside, I'd hate to live anywhere where property value (or residents' senses of well-being) was so fragile that it couldn't handle a purple house.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#20

Post by quesera »

iamevn wrote: post #18
next_xibalba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Unsure is the emphasis on "freely" is sarcasm but people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms. If the house you can get has a shitty HOA then you're stuck with it. It took us dozens of offers (all well over asking price) before we finally had one that got through and there's no way we'd be able to be picky about HOA.

> people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms

Of course they do.

If you don't like income tax, move to WA. If you don't like sales tax, move to OR. (If you like them both, move to CA!). These choices have inherent compromises.

If you don't like HOAs, choose a different neighborhood. Again, inherent compromises.

But freedom of movement is guaranteed to all (non-incarcerated) US citizens. If you choose not to exercise it, that's 100% on you and your choices of prioritization.

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