Gender Identity Five Years After Social Transition • Hacker News Board

Re: Gender Identity Five Years After Social Transition

#11

Post by a_shovel » Fri, May 06, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

goopgoopgoop wrote: post #10

foxyv wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These treatments are life saving measures. You are advocating for intentionally withholding proven and extremely effective treatments for an extremely painful disorder. > There's no good reason to give any sort of puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones to children, even if they're currently experiencing gender dysphoria. There are endless studies showing VERY good reasons to prescribe puberty blockers to dysphoric ch…

Quoted post unavailable.

Unfortunately, I was unable to obtain the paper's text. However, that site has a responses tab that contained the relevant information.

> Dear Editor

> On reading the study mentioned in the first paragraph an excerpt in the discussion reads as follows:

> "Participant experience of treatment as reported in interviews was positive for the majority, particularly relating to feeling happier, feeling more comfortable, better relationships with family and peers and positive changes in gender role."

> This does not match the claim made in the title. If the majority of participants expressed more positive emotions, then it is counter-intuitive to say that it has no affect on negative thoughts.

Puberty blockers are a medication that prevents an unwanted change, not causes a wanted change. For patients starting treatment before puberty, we would expect to see no change compared to their previous state, but much better results compared to those who sought the treatment but were unable to acquire it, as this study and others [ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X2... ] show.

Re: Gender Identity Five Years After Social Transition

#12

Post by goopgoopgoop » Fri, May 06, 2022, 10:14 PM UTC

a_shovel wrote: post #11

goopgoopgoop wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Unfortunately, I was unable to obtain the paper's text. However, that site has a responses tab that contained the relevant information. > Dear Editor > On reading the study mentioned in the first paragraph an excerpt in the discussion reads as follows: > "Participant experience of treatment as reported in interviews was positive for the majority, particularly relating to feeling happier, feeling more comfortable, bet…

The paper it's discussing is linked from the article but as you don't have access, here it is: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

The rapid response to the article refers to the qualitative interviews given regarding the patient experience, later on in the study timeline, whereas the psychological outcomes are measured by standardised scales that can be analysed quantitatively, and which were first issued prior to treatment. It is the latter that are being used to examine differences from baseline over time, for psychological effect.

A key paragraph in the discussion regarding this:

"Young people experienced little change in psychological functioning across the study. We found no differences between baseline and later outcomes for overall psychological distress as rated by parents and young people, nor for self-harm. Outcomes that were not formally tested also showed little change."

This does not support the oft-made claim (outside of this study) that this intervention reduces depressive thoughts and suicidal ideation, and saves children from committing suicide.

(For example, a commenter I replied to above claimed it's typical to see a 60-70% improvement on these measures, though this assertion was uncited.)

The study you linked is interesting, but as the authors state in the limitations section:

"First, causation cannot be inferred due to the study's cross-sectional design. It is possible that those who historically have higher rates of depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors are also less able to seek or obtain [gender-affirming hormone therapy]."

"To better understand directionality, prospective longitudinal designs are needed."

That is, the study lacks sufficient power to support the hypothesis that this medical intervention improves mental health outcomes.

Re: Gender Identity Five Years After Social Transition

#13

Post by Khelavaster » Fri, May 06, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

The sample group...isn't great. Only for participants who had completely socially transitioned between ages 3-12, and enrolled in the Trans Youth Project.

I'm very surprised Princeton and UW professors would generalize from this group to anyone who socially transitions...