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Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

clairnote.org

11–20 of 176 posts

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#11
I'm a still learning guitar player (I think I've been taking lessons for ~8.5 yrs and did some piano lessons as a kid and was in school bands).

I usually work on solo style arrangements of popular songs but sometimes dabble into learning solos, different parts of songs, etc.

I try to transcribe what I'm working on in standard notation generally. For me the hard part isn't writing down the pitch; it's the rhythm and timing. Trying to document vocal parts and/or solos is hard, because they float all around.

As others have mentioned, different genres of music document their music differently. Standard notation is probably actually pretty rare.

I don't think the pitch notation system in standard notation is harder than learning the underlying concepts (scales are 7 notes, there are half steps between the 3rd and 4th degree and 7th and 8th degree (the octave) of the scales, etc.). It's an interesting approach but I don't think it's solving the harder problem.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#12

This is interesting! As weird as the standard notation system is, it works pretty well for tonal music. If you know how to play your instrument within a given key, music takes the same basic shape on the staff, even if it's transposed. It also keeps most pieces pretty compact, even if they have a wide range. However, standard notation is also notoriously difficult to learn, to the point that many virtuoso players nev…

To me, this notation fixes a number of annoying bugs of the traditional notation. They clearly show each fix. Each fix clearly makes sense.

(I wish this notation were adopted since Bach's WTK was published. Alas.)

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#13
post #9

Applause for the effort but I doubt that this will become popular. Music notation has been a certain way for hundreds of years for musicians around the world – a notation with the universal legibility of mathematics. However, as someone who sight-reads all of his piano music, I'd be interested in experiencing if this makes sight-reading any easier or harder. It's taken many years of experience to be able to spot and…

The current piano layout (seven white keys and five black keys) is pretty closely tied to traditional music notation (sharps and flats => black keys), so I'd guess sight-reading with this notation would be harder on current pianos.

In principle you could imagine a more regular piano layout that maps well to this more regular notation. In practice, attempts to do that have generally failed and it's hard to see how to make it work.

The irregular spacing of the current piano layout can be frustrating, but it fits under the fingers pretty well, and it's very useful to be able to identify notes at a glance.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#14
Very cool. Every domain is always in need of fresh ideas. Even if they don't directly take off, they still provide valuable perspective and help bolster the process of slow, constant improvement.

It would be interesting to see how this, or a similar system, could be extended for any X-TET system, not just 12-TET.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#15
Interesting, well thought out, and well-presented. Just not sure that it solves a problem. It certainly isn't radically easier to learn than traditional notation. And despite other comments here, huge numbers of young people learn traditional notation all the time, with little stress. Maybe, as is true with spoken languages, it becomes harder to learn musical notation as we get older?

All the "problems" that this notation "fixes" are essentially non-issues for musicians who already know traditional notation.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#16

At a glance, this is a neat concept, but doesn't seem to come at the problem from the perspective of the most common users of music notation (experienced musicians); rather, it appears to have been written by somebody who was frustrated by trying to learn to read music. For experienced musicians, the priorities are a) legibility for sight-reading and transcription (which this system, with indistinguishable sitting/ha…

That does appear to be its origin. And if you take 12 equal divisions of the octave as a given, Clairnote seems more natural. OTOH once you're thinking in terms of a 7-tone subset, maybe traditional notation is more natural. (It certainly is to me, but I haven't given Clairnote a try.)

Traditional notation uses the scale degree as the fundamental unit, whereas this uses the 12-edo chromatic tone as the fundamental unit. While it's not a big deal to most musicians, there are a lot of microtonal variations of traditional notation (my favorite is HEWM[1]). A 12-edo notation like CLairnote could be similarly modified, but it seems awkward, because (most) microtonal systems don't start from 12 equal divisions of the octave.

I don't think the sitting/hanging notes are indistinguishable. But they do need to be distinguished, which means it's more work than looking at a traditional between-two-lines note. I find it difficult.

Clairnote does make key signatures available. Surely any real composer would include them, or something equally or more informative (e.g. the text "G dorian").

[1] http://www.tonalsoft.com/enc/h/hewm.aspx

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#17

Interesting, well thought out, and well-presented. Just not sure that it solves a problem. It certainly isn't radically easier to learn than traditional notation. And despite other comments here, huge numbers of young people learn traditional notation all the time, with little stress. Maybe, as is true with spoken languages, it becomes harder to learn musical notation as we get older? All the "problems" that this not…

I mean, English isn't hard to learn if you grew up with it either, but it's still three languages in a trenchcoat with a ton of weird things.

I mean, pronounce all of these words that have the same combinations of the letters "ough": though, through, rough, cough, thought, bough, plough, ought and borough. The notation is the same, but it's clearly not adequate to express the difference between pronunciation. If you grew up with it, you Know how they're pronounced, but as a non-native you wouldn't.

Re: Clairnote: An alternative music notation system

#20
I like the idea with the octaves. I'm not as sure about the chromatic stuff; the key signatures are there for a reason and I'm not sure it reduces the cognitive load in an expert. It would in an novice, sure. Possibly said novice would then move on to prefer it as they become an expert, so it's hard to tell. On-the-fly transposition would probably be a bit harder, but perhaps that's a skill level already so high that it's hardly worth optimizing for in the notation anyhow.

But definitely there's too much dependency on where note heads are versus the staff. Even in the typography used in the example, the note heads seem to noticeably hang below the line. I'm not sure the vaguely elliptical blobs really work with this system and I'd consider pushing another step away from conventional notation and distinguishing with something more visually clear, e.g., normal heads on the lines, squared-off heads if they are a half step away or something. Something that makes it completely unambiguous whether a note is on or in the line. ("Unfortunately" conventional notation that this is trying to be compatible with has already consumed whether the head is hollow.)

I would also like to see something less trivial on the intro page. In HN terms, visual programming always looks awesome as long as you're demonstrating something drop-dead simple like simply traversing a linked list or something. Show something with a bit more crunch in it, like even something as simple as a quicksort, and the vast majority of visual programming pitches suddenly look a lot less compelling. All the PDFs on the bottom of the page 404'd for me, but I'd like to see something inline.

Still, some interesting ideas here. The standard system is definitely a bit wrapped around a piano. I could see how this could simplify teaching any instrument that makes one tone at a time; all the rules for reading music become "this note -> this fingering/position/valves/etc", which would smooth over the first couple of years nicely.

One of the tensions of the current system is the learning novice vs. the expert. The current system is heavily tilted towards an expert. At the time it was written, that was appropriate. Building some more novice-friendly features in might be more appropriate in a more democratized era. (Though how one gets past the switching costs here for any alternate notation I have no idea.)

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